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Why did you take it?

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seeker:
Hello Write (and all)

I don't know, but I think the media has been picking up a bit more (maybe only a bit) on the fact that abuse has no boundaries.  Look at the OJ situation (not the trial, but events leading up to Nicole leaving...), look at the Menendez Bros., Michael Jackson???, etc.  Yow.  In fact, the description of your husband and the sock thing reminded me of OJ.  

No one can really make the judgment call of the person on the front lines wherever they may be--but you might want to check out a book called The Golden Ghetto by Jessie O'Neill.  I find the description of the book a bit misleading--it isn't solely about how people think about money.  It's really about the transformative power of having LOTS of it and how it affects relationships.  The dysfunctionality of some extremely wealthy families is described with excruciating anecdotes.  

My first strategy with any problem is to clobber it with a book!  :D At least you might find some small amount of validation for a person in your circumstances.  I believe the author also has some resources listed that you might turn to (I read it a long while ago, so don't remember if this is so or not).  

Hope this helps. S.

Simon46:
Hi Acapella and everyone:

Yes, my choice making in my relationship with my father has been quite a process, and I have not had any meaningful interaction with him for about a year or more.  I did very deliberately make the decision to tell him how I felt about it all (not just the incident in this post, but our lifetime of relationship together) and I told him. It took a tremendous amount of courage at the time, but I knew I had to do it, even knowing it might be the end of the relationship. He responded with a full-force scorched-earth retaliation for what he saw as an attack. He sent nasty emails, threatened, demeaned, dismissed, hit all my soft spots, and did everything that he could to try and regain control of the situation. It did not work, I did not back down, but stood my ground in the most forthright and honest way I knew how.

He finally relented and sent an email apology ending with the phrase “any further communications between us will result in an escalation which I believe neither of us wants.”  So, he wanted to say “I *said* I’m sorry, now leave me alone and don’t bring this up again.”  I contacted him later, and got a few stories about the weather, golf, etc. as if nothing had happened between us. It was quite bizarre, and I immediately thought, “This is pretending, and I simply can’t do it anymore.”  I felt like I had been emotionally raped, and now he wants to say “Hey, I *said* I’m sorry, what more do you want – now drop it”  Now that I have learned a lot more about narcissism,  I understand this strange behavior a lot better, and have come to expect it and not be at all surprised by it. It doesn’t mindfuck me in the same way it used to.

It still consumes a lot more of my emotional energy than I would like, but it all becomes clearer and clearer each day. I know I am moving forward in my understanding. I know that he would not even *try* to have that same conversation with me today because he knows the curtain has been pulled back and I would say with no reservation, “Hey Dad, you are being disrespectful to me and I told you I am no longer willing to let you treat me that way.” He knows this. I have already demonstrated that I am willing to end the relationship (not as a threat but as a way to take care of me), and I am. Once you get to that point in your heart, you are no longer easily intimidated.

I am more able to address that part of me deep down that is still hoping that he will come to me one day and express genuine sorrow and show remorse through action, and admit to myself that I will probably never get that. I am beginning to accept that he will probably never talk to me about this in any meaningful way. I am able to begin to let go of my secret desire for a deathbed confession, and am able to realize that most people die as they lived, and that he will probably die one day and that will be that with all of it’s pain and imperfection and ugliness. Period. I am beginning to understand that his death will not solve anything.

As I feel myself moving through a year or two later, I feel my anger and hatred slowly dissipating (because I finally recognized it). I find guilt and shame evaporating a little at a time (because I was able to see it). I am able to understand things that happened to me in the past that used to confuse me.  I find that I can really enjoy life at times and have genuine fun again.

I am able to (sometimes) not take it personally. To realize that it was all about him and his pain, and not really about me at all. To move away from “Why, why, why did you do this to me” and move towards “Oh, I see Why now, and it wasn’t even about me! – Isn’t that ironic!”  I am even able to begin to have some compassion for his side, and to see that if he could act differently, he would, but he can’t. It is crazy for me to expect a dog to act like a fish. He was also abused by his father, who never took responsibility for his actions, never apologized, and then died on him. He has done almost no work on this. He truly is at a loss to understand it and doesn’t know that all his adult children want from him is kindness, love, and respect as human beings, because he was never given that by either one of his parents.

annabelle:
Part of the reason I took it from my husband was (and Acappella perhaps you did too) because I talked to the wrong people about him.  Told the wrong people about my complaints and asked the wrong people advice about the situation.  Namely, his parents.  Not in detail, but I remember always listening to them when they said, "He's just obsessive compulsive.  But, you have to accomodate that.  In a marriage, you have to accomodate."  The problem was, he was never accomodating to me.  And, it was too too far to accomodate to him, and was never enough - always a new accomodation demand for the littlest things.  And, about hs temper, they probably said something like, yes, he's very passionate.  Or, he's difficult but worth it.  So, the moral of the story is, do not confide in  or seek advice from an N's family or friends.  You'll get a distorted view of the situation, you'll question yourself, and you'll get no validation.  Seek out neutral people or people who know you.  Not the N's supporters.  You don't want people to tell you what you want to hear, insincerely, but you don't want people to tell you what the N wants you to hear either.

CC:
Dear Simon,

you said:

--- Quote ---I am able to (sometimes) not take it personally. To realize that it was all about him and his pain, and not really about me at all. To move away from “Why, why, why did you do this to me” and move towards “Oh, I see Why now, and it wasn’t even about me! – Isn’t that ironic!” I am even able to begin to have some compassion for his side, and to see that if he could act differently, he would, but he can’t. It is crazy for me to expect a dog to act like a fish. He was also abused by his father, who never took responsibility for his actions, never apologized, and then died on him. He has done almost no work on this. He truly is at a loss to understand it and doesn’t know that all his adult children want from him is kindness, love, and respect as human beings, because he was never given that by either one of his parents.
--- End quote ---


My dear, this is exactly the part that gets me in trouble. You see, I HAVE had the compassion for my N mother for far too long.  I had already gotten past the fact that it wasn't about her trying to hurt me personally, and that she just didn't know any other way to behave.  The problem is, my compassion led to me "taking" it far longer and far more intensely than I ever should have!    They really don't even realize when they are slipping into abuse... and this is a hard stage for some to get to - many here would argue with me and say that there is no way they can't know - but I truly believe they are oblivious because they never learned any other way to survive.  At least, for me it is true because my mother has shown so many efforts of "trying" to change and just can't help herself.  Since our last confrontation after Thanksgiving, she has truly (and I believe her - remember there are different degrees of N)  attempted to understand her behavior and how it affects me, and has looked into herself (admittedly depressed too - the other night she said "I've turned against myself.. I realize that I am not the wonderful mother I thought I was, and it is a bitter pill to swallow..)

Even as I small point things out as they are happening - she doesn't see them as abusive until I ask her to consider if I had said it to her.  Even then, sometimes she understands, sometimes she doesn't.

The only alternative, sadly - is to distance ourselves.  For Rob and I, this is harder than ever, living in such close proximity to the N parent... but I know for me, the only way to remain protected is simply to not tell her personal things about my life - which for me is next to impossible because I have been so entwined with her for sooooo long!

anyway, just be careful of the compassion as you begin to feel it.  The bottom line is this: even if you feel compassionate about the person inflicting pain on you, and you understand where it comes from... it STILL affects us, and still can hurt us in our hearts, and our subconscious, even though we know in our "heads" that its not real.  I think is it wonderful for you to feel it at the same you are trying to break free.  Many here are not capable of this.  But it can also prevent you from moving forward - I speaketh from experience!!!  

Hugs,  CC

Simon46:
Hi CC:

I think “oblivious” is an excellent word to describe the narcissistic state of mind. I recall my father telling me a story about watching a father/son team who used to cut his grass. They were out there sweating together, laughing, having some healthy good-natured father/son fun that is possible in any loving trusting healthy relationship. My Dad watched them and could not understand why he could not have this with his children. He was baffled as to why all of his children were “hacked off” at him and wanted to move far away and have little to do with him. He said that it made him wish that he had spent his time doing something else besides raising four children. I can assure you, he has no problem saying this to me. In one way he might enjoy it because he knows it hurts me a little and that makes him feel good. In another way he is oblivious as to how horribly harmful these kinds of statements are to his relationships and to the fact that he has pushed us away with his demeaning, superior attitude.

It is interesting and unusual that your mother has tried to understand her behavior to some degree, and even admitted that maybe she was not the best mother in the universe. My mother still maintains that they were Good Parents and if they made any major mistake it was to do too much for me. I know that there is a lot of pride there that keeps them from admitting mistakes in general, in being vulnerable and less than perfect like all of us lower humans. This attitude is also how I went a lifetime without either parent ever saying “I’m Sorry” about anything.

The narcissist’s actual intent to hurt is a tough question. Take your mothers string of unbelievable letters. I am guessing she doesn’t have a big problem with any of that. At most she might shrug her shoulders and laugh and say “Oh Well.” She probably thinks she is perfectly within her rights and that you deserved that. She feels better, you feel worse. I doubt she is losing much sleep over it, only you are. This is hard for the rational mind to reconcile. It gives me no comfort to know that the narcissistic personality is incapable of feeling empathy, and sees no need to change, but I think there is a lot of truth in it.  

I am under no illusions that things are any different than they ever were – nothing has really changed except my perception of my father and my perception of our family dynamics. The way that my father will interact with me is no different than it has ever been, and he will proudly own that. But I know that I must forever be on guard, or I will be hurt (no different from in the past). Yes, this saddens me and is not the relationship I would like to have. But because my awareness and understanding has changed, I am no longer surprised or confused in the way I was before. Hurt? Yes. I think it is important for all of us to understand that it will always hurt no matter how old we are or how much we “work” on it, or whether our parents are alive or dead. That wound is profound and leaves a scar that will never go away.

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