Author Topic: Most Embarrassing  (Read 1851 times)

gratitude28

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Most Embarrassing
« on: April 25, 2006, 11:08:39 PM »
Hi All,
I don't know why, but today is the day I want to deal with this issue. It is something I have never talked about. It may seem trivial to you, but it has caused me no end of anxiety and shame for all of my life.
My parents house is disgusting. I am talking about it being almost as close as you can get to one of those news stories where the health department goes in and cleans it out. They have a tiny house with tons of animals (4 cats, two dogs, a ferret, 3 birds... those are all I can think of right now). The basement of the house is filled with things they have had since they got married... patterns my mother cut out in the 70s and never sewed, jars of things she pickled 20 years ago. A freezer full of food years and years old. It is so filthy and piled full. She has always said that as  child she never had to clean... her mother did it all for her. She won't let anyone else clean, but she won't clean either. This causes her no distress.
My father; however, is the exact opposite. He has everything organized and arranged and neat in his "areas." Once in a while he will insist on going through stuff, but I think it has just become such an effort to deal with it (and her) that he doesn't bother anymore.
I have always been deeply ashamed, yet I feel it is shallow of me to be so. My father knew I was embarrassed to bring people home and it shamed him. I tried having friends over, but wanted to jump out of my skin, seeing everything through a normal person's eyes. I lived a life of constant mortification. And still do. I am going there to visit, and this is a large reason why I will stay with them. If not, my dad will feel bad.
They have had the opportunity to move to many nicer places, but it is too embarrassing to show the house and impossible, frankly, to do anything with it except nuke it.
Please help me. This is one of the hardest things I have had to get out and I am so upset right now.
Thanks. Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

write

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Re: Most Embarrassing
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2006, 01:27:08 AM »
well, if she's hoarding stuff like cardboard tubes, useless stuff & can't throw anything away it's probably a mental condition.

But some people just don't see it as we do.

One of my closest friends in England is smelly and unkempt, so was her house. She is a lovely, capable woman. Just has a blind spot about this, even though I know other people including her family have criticised her, and she was once trying to get a job and I coached her including personal hygiene and appearance- she just laughed at me when I said we should get her a suit and it was important to bathe right before an interview. I swear she never bathed more than once a week, maybe she has no sense of smell.

I got used to it- she was such a great friend other ways- but once when i invited her to dinner my family complained that she had BO and ruined their meal!

Another friend I have ( again in England! ) he says he's 'recycling' but all his cupboards are full of plastic bottles, jars, assorted junk. When I wanted to throw some stuff away and clear out he was really uncomfortable, said he'd rather try and reuse it, though it looks pretty impractical. When I stayed with him I threw out rotting food and 100s of newspapers, he was pretty cross, said I was wrecking the planet. But given that he'd clearly been hoarding them for ages I'd say it was more than ecology going on.

I guess the question is- why do you have to stay with them?

Maybe if you accepted their environment and stopped worrying about it you would lose the shameful feelings, which I am guessing are mixed up with your embarrassment from the past being triggered by the thought of staying there now.

If he really wanted to change he would have left or insisted on some change years ago.

It's hard when you're a child and helpless in the face of your parents' chaos. And it takes time to recover and get to a point of your adult reality- where you don't have to give excuses or even reasons, simply assert what you'd like to do.

But honestly, you don't have to stay there now, you can stay nearby and still support and enjoy your parent's company.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))






moonlight52

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Re: Most Embarrassing
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2006, 02:07:22 AM »
When I was growing up my house was cold and looked like a museum,and felt like a museum .It was a lonely place.And my folks did not want kids over to visit or spend the night  because they would mess the house up.All my siblings were strongly encouraged to play outside which we did .That is where my strong love of nature come from. Gift within the problem.
Moonlight

gratitude28

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Re: Most Embarrassing
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2006, 02:24:10 AM »
Moon,
That is sad, but a sweet outcome:) Nature is kind and gentle. I love my house being full of children now. I can't understand how a person would not enjoy seeing his/her children play happily with friends.

Write, I don't know why it bothers me so much. Honestly, that's why I posted it here. I guess I think it's some reflection on me? Yes, I am talking beyond normal dirty. The dishes all have mouse droppings in them. The floors can hardly be seen through the dirt. It reeks of animals. There are piles and piles of every magazine ever brought into the house. My dresses from school dances are shoved into the closets (we're talking 20 years ago...).
Thank you for the insight and thoughts. I will reread and mull it over and see if I can get to the heart of what it is that bothers me. This is something I have wanted to deal with for so long.
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

write

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Re: Most Embarrassing
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2006, 03:02:53 AM »
I will reread and mull it over and see if I can get to the heart of what it is that bothers me. This is something I have wanted to deal with for so long.

I agree- it's something in the NOW which is so difficult.
Otherwise you'd just consign it to the wacky past, and not even consider revisiting.

There's nothing wrong with YOU.

Dirt is often a metaphor for shame. Shame often makes people feel dirty.

I'm guessing there's something deeper which is what you are trying to come to terms with dealing with?
Looking at your first post it is about your relationship with your father? You have maybe wanted to rescue him or take care of his feelings and now you have some ambivalence about that.

After all, he was a grown-up.
He should have been taking care of you.
They both should.

They have had the opportunity to move to many nicer places, but it is too embarrassing to show the house and impossible, frankly, to do anything with it except nuke it.

whose embarrassment here?
Your parents; new buyers; viewers; agents...who has told you this is impossible?




Portia

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Re: Most Embarrassing
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2006, 05:22:39 AM »
Morning Beth, congrads on getting that written down and out. Better out than in, as we say here.

My Dad is a compulsive hoarder and his ancient car smells, bad that is (kind of years of sun-baked in sweat, probably from previous owners too, which is kinda yuckier than if it was just his family’s excretions).

Am I embarrassed about it….not really. I used to be embarrassed about all sorts of stuff. I felt I had to protect mum and stepdad from outsiders’ views on their strange lifestyle. No-one could visit unless stepdad liked them (that meant no friends of mine); I wasn’t allowed to talk to my bio-dad for the hour-long Sunday calls on the telephone (had to use the public phone a mile away); they kept weird hours (stayed up until 2/3/4 am and slept late, they didn’t work); they chose to live in a very remote place and didn’t go anywhere other than the weekly shop…etc. Outsiders (like bio-dad) used to say to me “but what do they do all the time?” and I felt I had to defend them.

I haven’t defended anyone in my family for about 2 years I guess. And I stopped being embarrassed too. I sort of realised that although I’m a product of that dispersed family, I am not them. I have my life and they have theirs and those are completely separate.

The things they do, the way they live, the views and beliefs they have – none of it has anything to do with me now. 

I am going there to visit, and this is a large reason why I will stay with them. If not, my dad will feel bad.

What your Dad feels isn’t your responsibility. If your Dad is ashamed of how they live, then it’s up to him to do something about it. If you say, ‘I’ll stay at a hotel’ and he thinks ‘you’re ashamed of this place’ it means he doesn’t like it (if he didn't care, your decision wouldn't bother him). If he doesn’t like it, it’s up to him to change it. It’s not your problem. But pretending that the problem doesn’t exist and that it doesn’t bother you….?

Do you think you’ll be a ‘bad daughter’ if you don’t go out of your way to 'keep the peace'? Why should you feel bad (guilty?) for other peoples’ problems?

They have had the opportunity to move to many nicer places, but it is too embarrassing to show the house and impossible, frankly, to do anything with it except nuke it.

I guess they don’t want to move, otherwise they would have done it? People might moan and groan about wanting to change, but it’s up to them to do it. You can’t do it for them?


Write,

I’m sure there are many parts of England where people still take one bath a week, and nothing else. I bet there’s still a north/south split too! I remember when folks started installing showers and showering once a day. Where I come from (you know where) we regarded these people as daft southerners.

At sixth form college in the late 70s we did some local charity work and I ended up cleaning this old woman’s house. She kept her coal in the bath, honestly. I moved it but I bet she put it straight back. And why not? Her choice, her right to choose!

I want to repeat what you said write.

Beth, your parents were supposed to take care of you, not the other way around.

Right now you’re independent and so are they. The way they live today is zero to do with you – and you don’t have to buy into their lifestyle.

Hopalong

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Re: Most Embarrassing
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2006, 07:03:45 AM »
Beth,
I bet it was horrible, and still is. I can see how it would grate. I can't imagine staying there and that's a whole lot of love for your Dad to overcome your revulsion. Still, I wonder if it's worth it. Is it possible that at least sleeping in a clean hotel room would make it easier to interact with him lovingly and calmly during the day? It would at least give your spirit a break from the filth (not to mention it doesn't sound like a safe or healthy place to sleep...)

Hope you have options. And ditto Write, I think it's about shame. The detachment is long in coming.

But I hope you get there. I think complete lack of hygeine is in a way a form of mental or emotional illness. Maybe if you looked at her/them that way, it would help?

It certainly isn't you. As P says, you are not them. You can love them and not be the reason for the way they live. Your existence, your love, your quantities of visits, attention or neglect...nothing of you is the reason. They (particularly she) are people who express their illness on the outside.

((((Beth))))

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

gratitude28

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Re: Most Embarrassing
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2006, 08:38:06 PM »
You all are so awesome. I think you are right that I want to protect them and I do always have the need to see myself as the "perfect daughter." It has been a terrible problem for me. I caouldn't define what being perfect is if you asked me, but I always feel I am somehow not fulfilling that mold. Wow! One more reason to love myself even for my flaws. That has been the hardest thing for me... being honest with myself about myself. And you are right, my father has made the choices he has made, probably for indefinable reasons. But I need to take that rock out of my pocket and not deal with his issues (amazing how I get to thinking I control the world sometimes).
The idea of a hotel is wonderful... but it's a tiny town and the few lodges they have are far away. I think just dealing with the fact that I don't have any control over it will help me. And just having all of your great words in my head while I am there will help as well!
Thank you again.
BTW, those are some other amazing stories... I had a girl once in one of my classes when I was teaching who always smelled sooooooo bad. I never figured out why... the counselors talked to her kindly, but it never seemed to affect her in any way. There were some days that were almost unbearable.
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

write

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Re: Most Embarrassing
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2006, 08:55:03 PM »
I need to take that rock out of my pocket and not deal with his issues (amazing how I get to thinking I control the world sometimes).

you do control the world- but only your tiny piece of it.

The idea of a hotel is wonderful... but it's a tiny town and the few lodges they have are far away. I think just dealing with the fact that I don't have any control over it will help me

so start this vacation by staying out of town and driving in...get them to meet you somewhere.

Make a change. You don't want to stay there= you aren't going to stay there.

You can visit them briefly, write more, send little parcels- all manner of things to be a loving 'good daughter' without hardly ever breaching your boundaries of acceptable and comfortable.

Come up with an alternative and empower yourself, otherwise you may be just capitulating once again.

gratitude28

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Re: Most Embarrassing
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2006, 09:56:10 PM »
The hoarding site is very interesting. I think my mother falls under the ideas of avoidance and needing to feel things about her. The things are part of her. The more she has, the happier she is. She is like a child in that she basically does stay with her things and really only goes out to get more things. I have never seen her be embarrassed about her surroundings. She only picks up cues from someone else's discompfort and then waves it away with something like, "Oh, that's clean. I just washed it. Here, let me wiipe it off for you." (Bleecch!)
Very very interesting...
And, yes, write, it is time for me to take control... because no matter what I do, she will find something to be upset about :)
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams