Author Topic: Looking for words of advice...  (Read 2380 times)

movinon

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Looking for words of advice...
« on: May 03, 2006, 02:05:04 PM »
Hi all,

I am happy to report that things are pretty quite (for now).  I pray that they stay that way.  I am looking for some guidance here. 

There is an organization that I belong to that leads a women's empowerment community.  There is also a "brother" community that has 4X as many men as women worldwide.

Here is an effort to look at MY stuff.

I am having an EXTREMELY hard time with all of this.  Here is the problem.  THis program is about women's empowerment and what I see is women "following" and "mimicking" the men.  If there is a "joint" seminar, it's done the men's way.  If there is an event, it's done the men's way.  I do not see the men saying, "Let's try it the way you do it."   

Now a lot of this may come from my stbxH.  He was always saying how we should do things like they do and their way is better.  He is a leader-in-training in this organization and he has positioned himself with all of the top people (who are mostly married to the top people in the women's org.)  His gf just went through this weekend as did 3 of my friends.  I am choosing not to go to the celebration tonight b/c it will undoubtedly cause me a lot of pain.  He has brought this woman into our community introducing her at gatherings (where he had started introducing me last FALL).  It's very hard and very painful and I am trying not to be so angry about it.

It is VERY possible that these men do not know what he is REALLY about.  All they see is that he shows his emotions very intensly and very easily, which they greatly admire b/c so many of them can not get to their feelings (which is what the program is about).  I have also heard that he is a good facilitator (helps others to bring up these emotions and can "read" people well).

I desperately want to be a part of this community, and no one is saying that I can not be, and no one is trying to push me out (except him and gf). 

I think I am holding on to shame.  Actually, he is the one still acting out in his sexual addiction with a very dis-empowered, child-like woman (from all descriptions).

I just can't seem to find a happy medium here.  I want my woman's work to be validated.  I am tired of living in a patriarchal society (although it doesn't look like that's going to change anytime soon).  I want to SCREAM.  It is painful being around that community sometimes.

I am not considering it an option to leave the community, so if you could give feedback on what you see about ME and this situation, how I might get healing around this, I would very much appreciate it.

Movinon
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006, 04:13:31 PM by movinon »
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movinon

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Re: Looking for words...
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2006, 04:13:08 PM »
I'm looking for words of advice.  thanks for asking for clarification.

Movinon
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movinon

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Re: Looking for words of advice...
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2006, 04:22:17 PM »
teartracks -

Quote
THis program is about women's empowerment and what I see is women "following" and "mimicking" the men.  If there is a "joint" seminar, it's done the men's way.  If there is an event, it's done the men's way.  I do not see the men saying, "Let's try it the way you do it."   

Quote
All they see is that he shows his emotions very intensly and very easily, which they greatly admire b/c so many of them can not get to their feelings

I guess these sum it up best.

Movinon
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dandylife

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Re: Looking for words of advice...
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2006, 07:21:55 PM »
I think it's become quite common at work these days, and other types of organizations where there are people who have been together as a couple and who are not anymore. How would you deal with someone at work whom you broke up with? It's the same thing. It doesn't sound like you have to deal with this person on a regular basis, unless you choose to. And it sounds like the men's group involvement annoys you anyway. So why not focus on the women's groups, involve yourself as much as possible. Keep "him and his new her" in the background of your mind, just where it belongs. Show your own stuff as a "leader" and gain respect as you deserve it.
K.
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"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

mum

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Re: Looking for words of advice...
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2006, 09:12:20 PM »
my 2 cents here: being around your ex or even slightly associated with him leaves you feeling yucky and not powerful...leaves you questioning yourself, etc. GET THE HECK OUT OF THE GROUP!!! The fact that he is in a powerful position in the group, which is associated with the women's group is a HUGE RED FLAG!!!

I have found myself feeling more powerful, the fewer people involved!!! Its up to me, anyway....other people tend to distract me, and frankly, I would consider any "women's empowerment" group suspect if they are "attached" in any way to some sort of twin group of men!! No, I am not anti men, it just sounds counter productive (especially the way you describe it....YUCKKKK)
Screw em...you don't need em!!!! You are powerful without all the "group" stuff!!!

OK that;s my two cents....but what's your gut on this, movinon? YOUR intuition is what matters, not mine, not the group....
I have found that one or two confidants at the most are what helps me. Because I have had problems with giving up my power to others, if I asked too many people to be privy to my dilemma, I ran the risk of them and then me, questioning my own good intution and intention. Most people come at stuff with thier own stuff....and it's hard to get a take on "real" helpful thoughts.

Meditate or be still in this discomfort for a while....something will come into your head and TELL you (oh, it's really yourself!!) what to do.  Follow it (but first you have to hear it). Trust yourself. YOU ROCK, all by your self!!!

Hopalong

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Re: Looking for words of advice...
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2006, 09:49:00 PM »
Hi MO,
I've been familiar with at least one group movement that had many positive aspects to it, but ultimately encouraged a kind of overdependency, in my view. I'm not assuming your community is like that, but just in case, hope you won't be offended by these questions...

If you are empowered by what you've experienced with this group and through its processes (and I believe you that it's been a wonderful experience) -- does that empowerment extend to leaving the group for a year or two, until the Ex and all you associate with him is far behind you?

If there's any pressure at all, or any pressure that it would be "bad for you" to separate from the community for a while...might be something to pause about. Another question is, if you don't participate in the group's planned experiences for a while, are you encouraged to keep on with any good friendships you've formed through the group? Or is your closeness and contact with these women mostly restricted to during group activities, or on the way to or from, or in some way centered around the group?

Just points to ponder...(most of them projected from something I went through with another kind of "counseling" community, which likely has no resemblance at all to yours!)

Hops
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movinon

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Re: Looking for words of advice...
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2006, 10:39:08 AM »
teartracks -   

What binds me to the group is that I feel like it is VERY important work and for everyone that I have sent through, it's been life-changing work.  It's the only women's empowerment movement I know of in my area that isn't affiliated with some type of organized religion (which I am not open to).

dandylife -
Yeah, I get that this would happen if I was in another situation like work.  I guess if I worked with him...I don't really know.  The thought makes my stomach turn.  The problem is that it isn't just a work situation.  In a work situation, I wouldn't be dealing with personal growth issues.  This organization is about personal growth, deep feelings, integrity.  People come together to peel back the onion.

Mum-
Again, it's not an option for me to leave the group right now (by choice).  About the group stuff, it's more like a community.  We have 4 weekends a year where I am and we have a women's community of, I would say, 400.  Some women are active (staff weekends on a regular basis etc.), and some only participate in thier smaller (5-10 women) weekly or bi-weekly circles.  I guess I could just participate in weekends and my circles.  I think it becomes a bit of an ego thing with me.  I hear women on weekends talking about all of the "other" things they are doing (a lot w/ men) and I get jealous that I am not "in the loop".  Maybe if I type it here, it will lessen, but I want others to look at me and go "wow". I want to be the one whose name gets dropped- okay that feels REALLY shameful, but there's me naked on the table.

I will mediatate and be still in this.  I have even left a message for a man in the program that I feel can offer a better perspective and that I can come to resolve some things with.  I don't think I am necessarily anti-man, I am just very, very pro-woman.

Hops -
GREAT questions!!! - The community would have no problem at all w/ me leaving.  They are for each woman following her own intuition and doing what's right for HER.  There is really no encouragement either one way or another to keep up with friendships made in the community.  After attending the weekend, there is circle that comes together for a number of weeks and "guides" that offer tools that might help if women want to continue to do "work" after the guides leave.  It's all about following the wise woman within yourself and CHOICES - whatever that path may be.  There is no "leader" to speak of that calls and asks where you've been if you leave.  The support is there if you so choose to use it.  I could call any of these women and ask for support.  They are at all different levels of growth, so everyone is encouraged to speak their thruths.

I don't want to say I don't get a lot from the community b/c I do.  I get immense joy from helping and guiding women in the community and helping women to move through pain and other blocks so that they can be more empowered in their day-to-day lives.  These women are teaching their daughters to be true to themselves and not give thier power up (as so many of us do).  This work is my passion.

When I went on my weekend, I didn't like women.  They were the competition and were not to be trusted (messages from my mother b/c her H cheated on her and she held all the other women responsible instead of him).  My worth was SOLELY in my looks and how much attention I could get.  I learned what it felt like to be nurtured by women, to express my anger until it was COMPLETELY out - in a healthy way, to learn how to handle conflict, to be nurturing, to feel joy, to gain of sense of the sacred, to forgive and grieve.  The weekend is equivalent to 2 years of therapy so it is very intense.  Women look DIFFERENT by the end.  It's a place where women can go with ANY emotion they are having and know that our grandmothers and grandmothers before that are there to support us all - the sacred feminine.

Sorry, didn't mean to go on, but I wanted to give you all a good picture of what it is. 

Movinon
An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind.

mum

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Re: Looking for words of advice...
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2006, 11:11:37 AM »
Movinon, I appreciate your honesty. I probably misunderstood your situation, as it sounds like you know what your options and choices are.  Good for you. The things you are a part of sound great, for you, but I doubt it would be something I would feel comfortable with.  Which explains my last response...coming at it from my own perspective (um, I guess that explains all responses, huh?)
Anyway, best of luck to you with this. Tough stuff. Hang in there.

movinon

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Re: Looking for words of advice...
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2006, 12:23:39 PM »
thanks Mum
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MarisaML

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Re: Looking for words of advice...
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2006, 01:05:55 PM »
Is there a way that you can let your opinions be heard by the group?  A way that you can share w/ them that you would like it if the group became more independant of the men? 

As far as the the EX goes.... the most important thing is you don't have to put up with him anymore.  Try to feel pity more than jealousy over that new g/f.  He wasn't good to you and he won't be good to her.  Hold your head up and be proud that you are away from that toxic person.  And when you are around him and the g/f let them see that you are OVER him and you're happy.  If it's not quite yet the truth...it will be soon.  Good luck.

movinon

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Re: Looking for words of advice...
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2006, 03:51:26 PM »
Marisa -

I actually HAVE tried to show that I am happy in their presence.  It always seems to come back and break my heart a few hours later (I get grouchy).  I guess I still need to keep dooing that - fake it until I make it. 

This is a group of about 400 women and we are never in the same place at the same time.  Me telling them this would not change their opinion anyway.  A lot of them are hooked up with men from that organization as well and are in the same place I was a couple of years ago - not seeing that it could be damaging, not wanting to go against my H. 

Movinon
An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind.

write

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Re: Looking for words of advice...
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2006, 07:22:09 AM »
I've probably missed loads of stuff, but I seem to have been pushing for you to leave this group forever.
It just doesn't feel right to me.
It's not recovery- it's fitting your recovery around others, some of whom hurt you already, & continue to do so.

If you really want to stay do it in a positive way- by taking a break for as long as you need to move on.

You need your ex to be at a distance unless he stops acting out and goes to therapy- & not with that established group of his- with a reputable psychiatrist.

The whole environment screams 'cult' to me, and I know, I've been there, you want to keep the benefits of being a part of your network, trying everything to remain in a healthy way somehow....

But any group which hurts...it's a sign. Leave out, take a break, see outside support and help.

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movinon

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Re: Looking for words of advice...
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2006, 09:26:57 AM »
Hi all,

I wanted to let you all know I got answers to a lot of questions I had last night within my group of women friends (no not THAT group)   It was about my playing his old tapes in my head about "belonging" w/in a certain clique in the community.  And it plays on an OLD,OLD shadow of mine about belonging/not belonging - another friggin' growth opportunity.

The dissonance comes in b/c I have been trying to fit a sqaure peg (me) into a round hole.  I have been trying to make some of them be representative of the organization.  I don't HAVE to be into everything, on every committee. 

It almost seems silly today even THINKING about why he is a leader in training.  It's none of my business really.  I have a WONDERFUL 12-step community that accepts me just as I am and sees me as a leader and a woman with a lot to offer - that old thing about not being good enough.  I have been choosing to see these wonderful things as mediocre(sp?).

I will still staff some of these weekends b/c I want to give back what I got and I think the work is very important.  I am through trying to fit in w/ the "in" crowd on the weekend though.  I am powerful whether I am in the crowd or standing alone.


So write -
I hear you and I am making the choice to step back from the group to take a breather and gain more perspective.

Movinon
An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind.

write

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Re: Looking for words of advice...
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2006, 01:09:06 PM »
good for you!
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