I'm not heard

[seasons]

deleted

[Hopalong]

Seasons,
Is you SIL a person who likes to learn about what makes people tick?

If she is, maybe you could share an URL with the basic traits of narcissism, for example. You think that might help, or is it better left alone?

I understand the enormous desire so many of us have/have had for someone IN the family to see, along with us, the effects of N in the family. Sometimes, it just ain't to be. And only people outside the family system can give us support about that.

But it depends on the people. Your sister N sound pretty poisonous, and maybe she's too slick for your SIL to stand up to, you think? (After all, consider how many people here--smart and caring all--were deluded by Ns for literally decades upon decades. If you've only gotten your N-knowledge recently, might be hoping for too much to hope that your SIL would catch on as quickly. Plus, she's one family-step removed from your Sister N, so she's likely not quite as motivated to figure her out, as you are.)

((((((Seasons))))))

Hops

[MarisaML]

Stormchild..that is a good point. 

She could be lying or exaggerating.  Well you know she's bound to be exaggerating at the very least.  How long has your sister-in-law been in your family?  Or does she live far enough away from the sister-in-law to not know her real personality?  Most people who are around an N long enough seem to start disliking them.  Unless they get totally caught up in their manipulations and push-pull relationships.  Maybe waiting until your sister does something totally Narcissistic to the sister-in-law would be the best move.  I would probably give her a little warning before though.  She may think you're a little crazy at first but then she'll learn the truth.  If you tell her to be careful in her interactions with your sister.  It would be good advice.  N's are very harmful at times and I really hate to see clueless people abused.  I ran into a similiar situation with my N sister-in-law.  After she did what she did to us.  I called over to her real estate office.  The N is a Real Estate Broker and owns her own business.  I've worked for her at different times.  I'm a realtor.  So I called her office looking for her to confront her.  She wouldn't answer her home phone.  Well her I asked her secretary where that sorry excuse for human being was???  And then I proceeded to tell her what happend.  I told her she should get out now if she knows what's good for her.  Kim goes through employees very quickly.  People just can't stand to work for her long.  Either that or she finds some stupid reason to fire them.  I worked for her 4 years ago and she had a large group of wonderful employees.  A group of very good hard working people.  None of them are there now.  I doubt if that secretary listened to me though.  She was there a few days later when I called back.  And seemed a little more aloof.  Kim must've gotten to her and fed her a bunch of lies.  Oh but she will find out before too long.  And she'll wish she would have listened to me.  Because I know that if Satan has a sister it is KIM.  Keep us updated on how things go.

[MarisaML]

Wow, your Sister sounds so much like my Sister-in-law it isn't funny.  But why am I surprised?  They're both N's.  Your wreath story is just like the "giving" my Sister-in-law and Mother-in-law have done over the years.  This past November Kim started calling me and wanting to take me out Christmas shopping.  I kept avoiding her calls and telling her that I didn't need any help with my Christmas shopping.  My husband and I were good financially buying for our children.  But she kept pressing me and telling that she 'wanted' to buy for my kids.  I finally caved and allowed her to spend hundreds of dollars on my children.  She picked out most of the toys that she bought.  Many of which I would not have bought myself.  Later my husband and I bought what we wanted our children to have.  I knew all along that she would hold this over our heads and use it to try to control us.  And yes she did!  My husband quit his job to pursue a different career.  Kim called constantly to throw her opinions around like it was gold.  To me she called him 'lazy' and 'dumb'. I know that is far from the truth about my hard-working husband.  She also told me that she wouldn't put up with that if she were me.  I ignored these stupid comments.  She was only trying to come between us.  So when this last incident happened and I threw her out of my house.. she started throwing all that up to me telling me how much money she spent on us for Christmas.  I didn't care.  I didn't even want it in the first place.  So I asked her 'Is that why you gave to us so that you could try to control our lives?  So that you can tell us what jobs we needed to have?  Is that why you give?  Because when I give gifts to people I do so out of my heart.'  She had little to say after that except for making threats.  She knew that I had the upper hand on her and that's why she 'had' to do something really nasty in return.  Seasons, please try to be careful with your sister.  There is no telling what she is capable of.  My sister-in-law is 42 years old and she had never done anything quiet so terrible before.  My husband is her younger brother and she used to take care of him when he was a baby.  He was in a car accident several years ago and almost died.  And his family were devastated by it.  And we thought she wouldn't ever hurt him like that.  And when he did confront her on it over the phone.  She first tried to act nice and place the blame on me.  When he told her that he knew her too well to believe that. She started getting mad.  He told her that she would never see him or his children ever again and she said 'Do you think I care?  I don't care about you!'  And then he knew what his sister was for the first time. 

[write]

I can't read the thread 
it's a problem sometimes following the printed word especially online.

But I can say 'I hear YOU!'
even if I don't know the actual words, right?
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