It's been a long while since I've been here - trauma so I'm back

[adrift]

Thanks, Beth. 

Kelly, didn't mean to hijack your thread. 

[Overcomer]

No worries about highjacking!!  I have always liked the way these threads twist and turn - except when people start fighting.  But I have always said that when you read an email or a thread you NEVER know the intent or the tone of the statement.  It is easy to read into other people's thoughts.

Anyway, one thing happened today which irked me so I kind of got my mom back.  She had taken pictures while at my dad's family reunion in Jersey.  I said something like "Oh, I hate having my picture taken!!"  So the first picture I saw I liked the way I looked and I said, "Yea!!  Finally a picture where I look good."  She said, "Yeah, you look pretty good in that one!!"  So I said "Pretty good?  Pretty good!!?"   Well then today she had come in from the hairdresser and one of the girls at work said, "Hey your hair looks great!!"  And I said, "Yeah, it looks pretty good."  touche!!

[gratitude28]

Hey Kelly,
Funny you brought up the picture thing... my mother likes to take pictures of me at my worst. She thinks it is funny. She will "sneak" one if she can. After I had my thyroid out and gained a temporary 40 pounds, she kept trying to take pictures of me. I told her I wasn't feeling my best, but she did it anyways. And, like I have said here before, she will go back and pick out pictures when I am thin to show everyone on the websites and such. She doesn't take pictures to remember me... she does it to prove what I look like. I am just forcing myself to let people take pictures of me more regularly (I put myself in the position of cameraman to avoid it) because I know my kids will want to remember me... warts and all.
Love, Beth

[kelly as guest]

Well, remember, the N has to be the best.  My mom is much thinner than I am.  I live in a chubby body because she has cursed me my whole life with words like "fat fat" and "dumplin".........she on the other hand has had three facelifts, a tummy tuck and I don't know what else...........I just kind of caught her at the others.  I am trying desperately to get rid of those negative images in my mind so I can rise above all the shame and cursing!

[Hopalong]

Why do some women want to destroy their daughters?
Is it just as bad between fathers and sons?

I guess it is...
 

Hops

[Certain Hope]

Seems like some women project every characteristic/ trait that they hate or fear about themselves onto their daughters and then set about wiping out the "enemy"    Some don't rage or nitpick, they just apply the cold shoulder and isolate their victim. Either way, it's demoralizing and abusive.

Hope   

[Overcomer]

Well we all know that is it very important that a narcissist have all the glory and all the spotlight.  Then if you couple that with a horrible upbringing and the generational things that go on in families, you have a real monster!!  My grandfather didn't have a nice thing to say about anyone.  Now I watch my mother doing the exact same thing.  Funny thing is that she was real high up in a Direct Sales company for years.  When she walked into a room it was as if Princess Diana had arrived.  She absolutely thrived on that.  It was a perfect business for a N because she worked out of her home.  No one really worked with her on a day-to-day basis so no one really got to know the "ugly" side of her.  After she retired from that job my aunt took over for her.  I don't know that my aunt got the same accolades that my mom did, but she was "in charge" and well thought of.  So now they are both working in a business where their idiosyncracies are exposed for the employees to see on a day-to-day basis.  Their real colors come out.  My mom expects the same kind of adoration from the employees and doesn't get it, so she does the same thing to them as she does to me.  She always points out the bad in their departments.  NEVER even mentions the great things they are doing.  When someone in our store is selected to teach a class at our international convention, or to serve on a board, and she isn't, suddenly they are on her hit list.  I was selected to teach three classes at our convention and I know she hates that!!!  Back to the story about me letting her be on the panel to kind of sabotage her and then some positive reinforcement and she's back riding high!!!  Aunt thrives on Approval and so when the bookkeeper "corrects" her she tattles to my mommy.  I cannot keep doing this!!  It makes me crazy.  It's like a self fullfilling prophecy.  I am constantly put down by my Nmom - therefore my self esteem suffers and I continue to feed this fat and ugly body to somehow fit the mold that my Nmom has set for me!!  I know it in my mind but for some reason I just can't seem to break free from the condemnation!!!!!!

[Overcomer]

Well, Jacmac:  It goes like this.  When I get my new business off the ground and am making as much as I do now, I am out of there.  Problem for me is my job (even with my mom) is the lesser of two evils.  I quit once because it was so intolerable.  I went to another company and when I was in training I thought it was going to be a good fit.  I got married right before I changed jobs.  Well, the new job wanted me in by 9:30 am and I worked most days until 9:30 pm - couldn't even go home (two blocks) for dinner with my family.  I worked every Saturday and Sunday.  My job now is 9 am to 3 pm and I get paid a lot.  So you see, when I put the two together my job with Nmom was a better fit for my family (maybe not for my psyche - but for my family.)

So now I have decided that the best defense is to totally back off.  Like yesterday, my Nmom called at 5 pm and I didn't pick up.  She didn't leave a message.  I think she is getting "vibes" from me.  I used to work with her every day.  Went to church with her and out to eat after church - every week.  We would eat dinner together.  Well, anyway, we went on a vacation a couple of weeks ago and I told my dad I would not go if we didn't take two cars because I didn't want to be trapped in a car with the both of them (fighting and such.........)  The trip would have been a disaster if I hadn't set that boundary.  My new boundary is to totally sever my relationship with my Nmom outside of work except on rare occasions.  I have pretty successfully severed the emmeshment with her(which my mom has used to control, etc...............) but time to grow up and live outside of her orbit.  This saying to her "I do not think you are a very smart woman for alienating our bookkeeper - but rather than have a knock down dragged out fight with you, I choose to not talk with you at all!!!"

[Overcomer]

My children are all out of town for the holidays.  Two are with their father and the other is with her boyfriend.  I cannot tell you how sad I am.  I guess I was really looking forward to the break and have just been vegging out while they have been gone.  One of the management team at work resigned so the bookkeeper and I thought this would be a great time to rearrange the management team to get aunt out of the job she is doing and put her into a more administrative role (which she is better at!!)  I suggested it to Nmom and of course, she defended aunt.  Not that I have anything against aunt - just that she isn't working out the way we all anticipated!!  So anyway, I miss my girls.  I am going to a convention with both Nmom and aunt on Friday.  A whole week with them!!  I cannot do it!!  My anxiety and sadness are overwhelming me.  I can feel the frown on my face!!  I mean............I cannot smile.  I am not PMSing.  I am just so sad right now.  Maybe because I realize that I am living in the midst of hopelessness along with voicelessness!

[lightofheart]

Hi Kelly,

Your work situation sounds like a stressful nightmare to bear. Painful, bad for your self-esteem, a matter of swallowing emotional sh*& daily. I can't imagine how exhausting this would feel. I hope the love and support of your other family is pulling you through.

I think Jac asked a really important question:

I keep saying to myself, "But how much is your peace of mind worth?"

[/color]

Do you really think the money is worth what it's costing you? More than your self-esteem, and daily happiness?

I cannot keep doing this!!  It makes me crazy.  It's like a self fullfilling prophecy.  I am constantly put down by my Nmom - therefore my self esteem suffers and I continue to feed this fat and ugly body to somehow fit the mold that my Nmom has set for me!!  I know it in my mind but for some reason I just can't seem to break free from the condemnation!!!!!!

[/color]

Twelve years of this? Personally, I couldn't last a week. It sounds like your Mom has tremendous power over how you see yourself, and you hold her responsible for your weight. I'm not sure how that will change, short of some distance between the two of you?

I have pretty successfully severed the emmeshment with her(which my mom has used to control, etc...............) but time to grow up and live outside of her orbit.

[/color]

Do you really think this can happen while you're under her control daily at work? We all need to vent once in a while. iimho, venting means letting it out so it blows away. If every day at work requires 'venting' then you're not letting it out; you're stuck in a loop.   

You've said you're scared, and beside yourself with grief and anger. What kind of a toll does it take to live with that? I don't mean to scare you, but I have concern for you, Kelly, and especially your kids. This kind of stress can have lifelong health repercussions.

My anxiety and sadness are overwhelming me.  I can feel the frown on my face!!  I mean............I cannot smile.  I am not PMSing.  I am just so sad right now.  Maybe because I realize that I am living in the midst of hopelessness along with voicelessness!

[/color]

Maybe this would be a good time to listen to yourself, what feels best in your heart and head for you. It sounds like a good part of your day is spent with people who encourage your voicelessness. What do you most want for Kelly, right now?

I'm not a parent, I don't know the pressure of trying to provide for children financially. But I can't imagine it would be good for them if you drive yourself into the ground waiting for an inheritance, in the end, that's contingent on your mother's whim.

imho, all we have is the present, today. For what it's worth, I'd wish you happy days and a peaceful heart now, with your children.

Good thoughts to you Kelly,
LoH

PS - if it helps to know where I'm coming from, I lost my inheritance/a trust fund from my GM by asking for a healther relationship with my N. father. At 32, I was diagnosed with a chronic illness largely brought on by work-related stress. I only regret the latter. 

[Overcomer]

All such good advice.  But I cannot find a way out.  I have tried and the alternatives have always been worse for my family than staying.  But I have to say that it has been so hard to bear all these years that there is probably some physical thing brewing deep within my body due to all the stress I have been through my whole life!!

Part of me says I just want to move away.  Start over.  Be as far away from my Nmom as possible.  But can I do that to my kids???  My Nmom is a better Gma than she ever was a mom.

And then I think that God cannot allow me to go through this indefinitely.  He HAS to provide a way out for me!!!  Sometimes I think it will take the death of my Nmom for me to finally be free from her condemnation, lack of approval, etc.  Not that I want her to die but when she does I will probably have a big sigh of relief!

[lightofheart]

Hi Kelly,

And then I think that God cannot allow me to go through this indefinitely.  He HAS to provide a way out for me!!!

[/color]

This is great to know, that you have God to talk to about it. Always keeps me from feeling alone, even on the worst day.

There's really no advice I meant to give, or could. Just wanted to express concern. You sound like you're living with a lot of pain.

Hope the good things keep pulling you through.

Best,
LoH

[Overcomer]

Hello All!   Just got back from a convention with guess who?  Nmom and aunt.  Stayed a whole week with them.  24/7  Well, one thing I learned over the last week is that my self worth does NOT depend upon my Nmom.  Yes, I have discovered that there is never a time on any day of my life that my Nmom gives me ANY words of encouragement.  In fact, if I say anything (this is stupid - I just told her that she likes to wear blouses which cross over in the front - an argument insued................... we were shopping and I saw a blouse similar to many she already has ) she will disagree.  Then I heard a speaker at the convention which just confirmed all I know to be true.  If I ever want my Nmom to change, I will die waiting.  SHE will never change and I have to just deal with her stubbornness....................the stupidity.  I almost want to say I hate her but it is just because of the futility of knowing that she won't change and there is NOTHING I can do about it. 

I went to a cabin yesterday and a friend of mine and his wife own it.  Her father bought it for them.  Just because he has money and is nice.  My mom has money but she would never in a million years do something like that for me.  Oh yeah, she gives when I ask.  But she won't bless.  I guess it fuels her need to feel important.  Something about having people come to her in their times of need.  Yes, mom the HERO!!!

So I am vowing to just do everything I can do to protect myself from her.  And I have also decided that everytime she says ANYTHING that in the least makes me feel less than or inferior - I am going to catch her doing it at that moment and rebuke her right then and there!

[Hopalong]

Hi Kelly...
I live with my NMom, and I was obsessed with her not being kind, maternal, generous...all that.
I exhausted myself wanting her to be other than what she is. It was an obsession. I thought more about her, was eaten up with anger, grief, hatred and frustration, over her...more than anything.
Then I accepted it. I drew boundaries so she couldn't toy with me any more (one big fight)...and ever since, it's a changed relationship. I even love her in a new way. (Oddly, it's coming back, too. She's not a competitive enemy any more. Sort of like a resigned old woman who belatedly recognizes me as another woman in the foxhole of life. Still an N, but she's letting her best side leak out too. Doesn't have the energy to try to suppress me anymore, and seems less interested. So, we cope together.)

I get my mothering from myself, my friends, my church, my affectionate dog, this board, my community.

Where do you get your mothering? If you aren't being loved...WHERE CAN YOU GO TO BEGIN THE PROCESS OF FINDING SOME NURTURING FOR YOURSELF? (Serious question.)

One of the biggest steps I took, years ago, was going to women's support groups. There, I found the love and support of women. That did so much to help me begin healing my losses (over not having felt loved by the primary woman, my mother). Then I started six of them, and passing on the nurturing became as joyful as getting it had been.

I think it's really important for you to try on this thought: IT IS DOABLE. TO BECOME HAPPY IN SPITE OF EVERYTHING THAT HAS GONE BEFORE. It happens all the time, to people in even greater pain and misery than you and me. It does happen, because it is doable. You are up to it more than you give yourself credit for.

I truly believe that just being brave enough to try on that thought, day after day, insisting that you say it to yourself...might be all you need to get started in a new direction.

Hope you keep posting, you are not alone.

((((Kelly)))))

Hops

[Overcomer]

Thanks, Hops!!  For the hug AND encouragement.  I picked up a book in my library called "Love Hunger."  A book about eating disorders, etc. which talks about how we eat to fill the void from the lack of love and encouragement.  As I was reading through it it brought tears to my eyes.  It talked about getting into a support group (specifically Overeaters Anonymous.......) but also talked about finding a women friend to "mother" you.  It's hard to find someone like that.  I have a best friend who is about 8 or 9 years older than I.  I wonder if she could kind of mother me.  I hate to lose that give and take thing we've got going.  Probably would like to find some lady at least 20 years older who could understand my pain.  I am at a loss because most of those ladies are probably my mom's friends and I have concluded that to my mom and aunt, it is what appears to be the truth that is important to them - not the truth.  I find myself exposing them in public - like when someone said my mom looks more like my sister than mother and I said something like - "See goes to great lengths to look that young!!""    (Exposing the plastic surgery - the THIRD facelift!!)  Well, I have decided tomorrow to tell my mother that I am going to mirror her behavior back to her.  When she has an idea that I do not agree with I am going to say "That's insane!!"  Or some other invalidating thing.  B ut what I am going to do it TELL her I am going to do it.  I am going to say, "Mother, I am going to purpose to respond to you the way you respond to me."  "And, when you invalidate me or make me feel stupid - no matter who is standing there - I am going to say - "Did you mean to invalidate me by saying XYZ?"