Author Topic: Just a phone call....  (Read 2393 times)

Healing&Hopeful

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Just a phone call....
« on: June 30, 2006, 05:28:47 AM »
Hiya all

Just need to have a right good rant…..

Mum phoned me last night.  They are coming over a week on Sunday for the day and we are all going out to Cadbury’s World.  This is the same day at the final of the world cup so my poor Dad will be stressing about getting back to see it.  Mum’s empathy, or lack of, never ceases to amaze me sometimes.  She asked him why he’d want to see it… and he said because it only happens once every four years.  I suggested to Mum that we change it to a different Sunday… not possible because my brother’s going away for a weekend next weekend, and then the tomatoes might die!!!!! 

So anyway…. The conversation moved on to the weather, and I said at least it’s nice for the weekend and how many times it had been nice at work, and come Friday evening started clouding up for the weekend, and how annoying it was…. Then I said about being so busy at work, what time I left and got back… and how for the last day or so I’ve been working flat out!  She then went on about how busy their lives are, you know we went to the Butchers on Monday, then Tuesday went to see someone about the garage door…. Etc etc…  I felt so annoyed, but then I realised, there’s no validation…. There’s no, ahh, well at least your busy, or although works busy, you’re still enjoying it, or anything really…. She took it as a personal slight against herself, so had to explain to me how busy they were….  Am I just being silly, or do I have some point? 

Then the conversation moved on again… to my brother…. As Mum was explaining that they were up at 5 am yesterday because my brother had to get up for work (my brother will finish early afternoon, whereas if my H is up at that time, he doesn’t get finished for a good 12 hours)… but I said, you don’t HAVE to get up when my brother gets up…. Well, apparently they do because it’s not very nice for my brother to get up on his own, and because we live in a house and they live in a bungalow, they hear a lot more so get up, whereas with a house you can move around and not wake anyone.

By the time I came off the phone, I felt like screaming!

H&H xx
Here's a little hug for u
To make you smilie while ur feeling blue
To make u happy if you're sad
To let u know, life ain't so bad
Now I've given a hug to u
Somehow, I feel better too!
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Stormchild

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Re: Just a phone call....
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2006, 06:56:36 AM »
H&H

Everything's a contest with Ns. They have no concept of how to have an equal relationship with anyone, because there isn't another person in their entire universe. There's them, and then there are their toys and tools.

So when you expect support and empathy from an N, you get annoyance, competition, and abruptly 'put in your place'. Those things are for THEM and THEM ALONE. That's what 'entitlement mentality' means... affirmation on demand, regardless of any reality, yours or anyone else's.

Watch for the constant contest type response - it can be very subtle, but it's an unfailing clue.
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

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Certain Hope

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Re: Just a phone call....
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2006, 07:13:41 AM »
H&H,

She sounds just like my mother.... my sympathies to you. At nearly 80, she's mellowed somewhat, but still and always ~ she acknowledges no reality but her own.  Combine that with a martyr complex and ... look out!  I can sure understand your desire to scream. Hugs, H&H.

Hope

Portia

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Re: Just a phone call....
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2006, 08:05:08 AM »
H&H

Am I just being silly, or do I have some point?

You haven’t been silly once as far as I can see. Yes you have lots of points about which to be justifiably pissed off!

How about:

Dad stays home to watch final (I would)
Mum & brother go to Cadbury World (and pick up bars of salmonella, bonus points)
You and H do something else.

Honestly, you’d have to give me a very good reason to spend this day out, with this kind if tension building now. None of it sounds like fun, and I like to have fun!

Questions for you not necessarily to answer: do you want to subject yourself to this; what do you get out of it?

Well, apparently they do because it’s not very nice for my brother to get up on his own

Poor love. Maybe he could join the army  :twisted: and then he’d never have to get up alone and he’d be free of your mother’s clutches? How does this crap about your brother make you feel H&H - angry, sad?

This ain’t healthy H&H. Sorry. :(

SilverLining

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Re: Just a phone call....
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2006, 01:19:04 PM »
I understand how you feel. Your phone conversation sounds  like the sort of "exchanges"  I have with my NAS father (that's narcissistic/aspergers syndrome).   He called me last week.  First he monologues in detail about everything that is going on in his life.  When finished with this he says "well that's all I have to report".  Then he solicits some information about a money related matter of interest to him.  I'm a manager so I have some expertise at this.   He scoffs at the information I provide.  Then says goodbye and hangs up the phone.  Not once does he ask how I am doing or what is going on in my life. 

Only recently I figured out this is a lifetime pattern.  I sure understand the desire to scream at the end of this kind of conversation.

mum

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Re: Just a phone call....
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2006, 02:58:32 PM »
OH my gosh, I recognize that conversation! YES>>>by all means SCREAM. I have started to hang up on people if that starts happening....or I tune them out, but it's less effective. When they call back I just say something weird is happening with the phone, can't imagine what...
I know it's not a particularly witty way out, but matching wits with Nidiots never works, anyway, they simply HAVE to keep the conversation one sided.....AAAAGGHHHHH. So very frustrating.

As far as keeping everyone happy with this upcoming visit: um, does it have to be your job?

WRITE

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Re: Just a phone call....
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2006, 11:50:01 PM »
SCREAM AWAY! we've all been there.
never agree right away; get into the habit of not putting yourself on the spot by always saying, oh that's a nice idea, I'll check the date/ the family/ the venue is free and get back to you.
After a few times you can introduce :what if--- eg you come for a barbecue ( you can invite a few sympathetic friends so it's fun for you too ) or we take you out for dinner.
THE KEY IS- even if it's not entirely perfect YOU ARE TRYING TO ESTABLISH OUTINGS ON YOUR TERMS:
THE DATE/THE ACTIVITY/ THE FREQUENCY OF VISITS/CALLS etc.


Remember, just by continuing to receive their calls and spend time with them you are a nice person trying to be good to your family.

That doesn't mean you have to respond to their every demand.





Hops

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Re: Just a phone call....
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2006, 10:34:53 AM »
Hi H&H,
I'm sorry it's taken me so long...this hit me in the same bruise and I wanted to send you a hug.

I think one thing you said just completely summed up the relationship you have with your Mom (it's not exactly having a relationship, because she doesn't do any relating):

Quote
there’s no validation

I hope you can develop a whole bunch of new habits that aren't about trying to reason with, make happy, please her, or look for rational behavior...as though you playing are badminton, just swotting her empty remarks away from your heart like the birdie....

I say, DON'T LET HER HURT YOU. Whatever it takes to learn to deflect, just...swot, swot, swot.

You might get the old "Change back!" kinds of whining, digs, and protests. But if you decided to just keep doing this new thing, and keep it up...over time, she'd have to accept it. It's not her place to dictate how you protect your heart.

It's yours. And your good heart deserves it.

swotswotswot...((((H&H))))
love,
Hops

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: Just a phone call....
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2006, 10:23:29 AM »
Hiya all

Many many thanks for your responses…. And I’m really sorry I haven’t replied sooner, or answered other posts as my life just seems to have took off to manic city!

Storm…. “Entitlement Mentalilty”… I’d not heard of this before but it jumped out at me… And yes, the contest is subtle and I get left with the feeling why am I so annoyed….

CH…. Your Mum sounds just like my bio dad, and I think that why I’m still in contact with Mum because I think she’s not as bad as he is.  Mum is an only child also so I think that may have something to do with the way she is also.

Portia…. Hmmm, good reason…. Well, there is a good reason but unfortunately it’s not a good reason for us.  Me & H think they only asked us because it’s too far for them to drive, however they can come to ours and then we can drive.  They only thought about going there because I mentioned that me and a couple of our friends and their kids were going to go, but then my friends kid was poorly.  Then Mum decides that it would be a good day out….    All I can say is at least H is with me!  Though I did think in hindsight that maybe I should have said I had put it off and was going with my friends at a later date.

As for my brother…. What can you say?  Yes I feel angry and sad…. But also happy I suppose, happy that I escaped!

Tjr…. I’m sorry you have these types of conversations with your father… I know how draining they can be.

Mum… does it have to be my job?  I couldn’t really get out of this one…. Mum asked when we were there and asked when we were available for them to come over so we could go.  I’m very lucky in that my H is soooooooo laid back and supportive.  Nothing about them surprises him.

Write…. You make some great suggestions there…. I think I was put on the spot this time, however I think it is time for me to wake up and smell the coffee.

Hoppy… thank you for the hug.  Your don’t let her hurt you comment flew out of screen.


Sooooo, next question…. How can I change things by I don’t get suckered into this type of conversation?

How can I change my reaction so I don’t feel fed up by all the talk of my brother?

H&H xx
Here's a little hug for u
To make you smilie while ur feeling blue
To make u happy if you're sad
To let u know, life ain't so bad
Now I've given a hug to u
Somehow, I feel better too!
Hugs r better when u share
So pass one on & show u care

mountainspring

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Re: Just a phone call....
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2006, 11:04:10 AM »
Hi H&H,

Quote
How can I change things by I don’t get suckered into this type of conversation?  How can I change my reaction so I don’t feel fed up by all the talk of my brother?

Maybe it would be helpful to distance yourself.  When you talk to your mother, don't give information about yourself.  Don't tell her about your week, what your doing, etc. etc.  This eliminates the contest and keeps you safe.  You can share information about yourself with people that are safe.

When the talk starts about your brother and you start to feel the anger, you suddenly have to go.  Can't talk more now, running out to the store.  Nice hearing from you. Bye.

And remember you have choices, even when it feels like you don't.  This is a hard one sometimes.  Can't go to Cadburys Sunday, somethings come up.  And when she questions you about what, tell her it's personal and you can't discuss it.  Then sit with what you're feeling until it passes. It will pass. 

Detach.... detach.... detach.... it's healthier for you and there's nothing wrong with taking care of yourself.  Easier said than done, but it becomes easier with practice.

These are some of the things I do.  I hope they are helpful.  (((H&H)))


lightofheart

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Re: Just a phone call....
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2006, 01:47:59 PM »
Hi H&H,

I'd second everything Mountainspring said; excellent thoughts to keep in mind. The cool part is, imho, the difficulty of remembering other options and acting on them is directly proportionate to use: they get easer and easier. Even habitual. Plus an inch of detachment = a mile of safety. And you get all the positive reinforcement that flows from feeling more empowered/less trapped.

Quote
Sooooo, next question…. How can I change things by I don’t get suckered into this type of conversation?

How can I change my reaction so I don’t feel fed up by all the talk of my brother?
[/color]

Don't know if they'd fit for you, but these are self-defensives I use or have used:

1) In a conversation where the other person wants to monologue, I let them. Keep one toe in, just in case there's eventually a question, but I feel free to wander off mentally or walk around the house/watch the birdies outside. Phone calls with my N. MiL are like this. They used to be, as you described, really draining. Now I see how easy my tiny role is. The answer was truly accepting that talking about herself is all she knows, conversationally, and she just isn't capable of taking an interest in my H. or me.

One mistake I used to make with MiL: assuming that a comment from her about XYZ meant she might want to hear about us, or a response from me, or, essentially, anything but her own voice. Her reaction when I forgot that this was a monologue? Interrupt me, 'top' or compete with what I said, or go back to herself like I hadn't said a word. Used to bug me royally before I accepted her for who she was, mourned what we'd never have with her, then learned to accept her and the place where she is.

2) Do you have caller ID? I do, and feel free to screen incoming calls. If I don't feel up to  X conversation/caller, I'll call them back at a better time. Depending on the person, might even wait for a time when I have no more than 5 or 10 minutes to talk. Or, if I think I really need to take the call, I'll set a time limit for myself before I pick up the receiver.

3) I have an N. ex-friend who is still part of my social circle. Have learned to never ask her an open-ended question. (Hard, as I'm a questioner and at-length listener by nature). imho, bless her heart, this woman is a self-pitying sympathy addict. So, if I hear the faintest trace of trolling for sympathy, I do anything but give it. Change the subject, say hmm, uh-huh, or something purely neutral, or point out something positive in the situation versus the 'poor me' validation she's looking for. Over time, she's come to see I'm not a good source of pity or sympathy. I never get together with her one-on-one, so, in a group, she latches onto someone else.

4) As to your brother, it's good that you feel lucky to have escaped. Is there a visualization that might work for you to remember this, how that gratitude feels, when M. is going on about him? Maybe a positive visual of yourself as free, and him all penned up? Don't mean to get down on your B., just something to remind you of your own good luck, maybe a picture of your sweet H., either mentally, or a great picture to keep near the phone that you could pick up and look at? Back in the reign of my N. F., I used to keep a bowl of seaglass and shells near the phone and just bury my hands in when he started to get to me. Nice cool sensation.

5) I think someone already said this, but conditional words are great tools. 'Maybe,' 'I'll check', 'I'll think about it/get back to you'. Also the long pause. Some folks rely on the verbal ambush, a question or suggestion out of nowhere they try to get the other person to react to immediately. Who, later, will be reluctant to revisit a decision/promise, or back out of a plan. The N. ex-friend was a master of this...over time, I developed a policy of agree to nothing/no promises/always take a minute. Now she only tries to do it via email or letters, or in front of an audience (hoping I'll feel pressured to agree). Even then, I never answer affirmatively.

Also, sometimes I do picture ridiculous things while someone is saying something that might otherwise wear on me. Picture their words as flying cow pies, me lucky to duck, or me as a superhero storing up energy to leap up on the conference table and high kick their coffee mug across the room before I fly down the hall to my next caper. Sometimes just an anvil falling on their head.

Sorry to go on, whoops. Here's to mega-empowerment for you, H&H, and hugs for the trip.  :D

LoH

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: Just a phone call....
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2006, 02:34:47 PM »
Wow, thank you MS & LoH.... I'm going to have to digest what you have wrote... xx
Here's a little hug for u
To make you smilie while ur feeling blue
To make u happy if you're sad
To let u know, life ain't so bad
Now I've given a hug to u
Somehow, I feel better too!
Hugs r better when u share
So pass one on & show u care

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: Just a phone call....
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2006, 07:04:25 AM »
Thanks for your replies.... and I've took on board all your comments.

Last time I spoke to Mum, I did step back a bit... let her talk about her tomatoes etc etc.

I did keep to the arrangement last Sunday, mainly because I don't like letting someone down unless there's a very good reason.

However, all in all, it was quite a positive day and they left about 4-ish so my dad was ok to watch the big game.  There was also a good example why it's so much easier with my H there.... when we got back to ours, we were asking my brother if he met up with his work colleagues at all outside of work, to which he hasn't.  Mum then straight away said, but he doesn't work with the same people every day.  As H was there, he said, well, neither do I but I still meet up with them.  Straight away that changed the conversation, "Oh so you don't work with the same people each day then?".... It shows that the excuse just doesn't work, however it's find for H to say this.

But anyway.... my main point is that your suggestions do help so thank you loads!

Take care

Love H&H xx
Here's a little hug for u
To make you smilie while ur feeling blue
To make u happy if you're sad
To let u know, life ain't so bad
Now I've given a hug to u
Somehow, I feel better too!
Hugs r better when u share
So pass one on & show u care