Should I divorce my narcissistic mother?

[miss butinski]

Hi,

I called myself miss butinski as that was what my mother called me as a child when ever I tried to participate in a conversation. With her its generally a lengthy monologue of her latest great news and then a few vague uh hah's when I am talking. She has abondoned me physically and emotionally all my life (now 30's) and yet says it was (and still is) all my fault. how do I remove myself from her life or should I try a different approach. I will thank her for one thing, by being such a self absorbed mother she showed me how to be a loving one - just do the opposite of her!

[moonlight52]

Welcome MB ,

There are lots of people here to give support and understanding to you.
My n dad always would go into long stories and some of them interesting but he was always the center of attention and he would tell me anytime I would say a word to be quiet .

I understand and have experienced this my whole life he seemed to enjoy humiliating me in front of any family functions.So I learned to be very quiet.As far as divorcing a parent that's a hard decision for you to make.

There are many here that can help you with what approach you want to make.I have been greatly helped by the people on this board.Also your parent in a way was a teacher on how not to be a parent .I have not repeated the abuse that was done to me .

MoonLight

[Magnolia44]

Hi MB,

I am sorry your mother called you that whenever you would try to participate in a conversation. Both of my parents are NPD. I am 40 and I finally divorced them this year. It was a very difficult decision, but their behavior made it easier for me. I officially did this on my 40th birthday in April. The first 3 weeks or so were diifficult: a lot of emotional processing. However, I have been pleasantly surprised how things are unfolding for me as time goes by. I feel a freedom that I have never known. I smile to myself when I think that I will never have to experience their degradation any longer. I feel more empowered. All of a sudden I have a lot more room in my life for others and can focus more on doing good things for myself. Contact with my family would make and keep me depressed. As time goes by, I feel the fog of lies and distortion lifting and I can see things more clearly now.

All in all, I wish I had done this 10 years ago. A lot of what kept me involved were my nephews, however, that has turned out to not be worth it, as the emotional issues were handed down to them as well. Too many problems.  One nephew that I helped out so much turned on me and scapegoated me when it was convenient. Very difficult to deal with, but I know it was the influence of the family dynamics. I feel sorry for him because he is trapped in the web of lies and distortion.

I finally came to the conclusion that I did not want to experience this for the second half of my life.  The only thing I lost was negativity. Not love, nor consideration. Just junk. It has been a blessing for me to let go of those that abuse me.

[Stormchild]

one of the members here, Samantha! , has started a YAHOO! group for people who have divorced their parents or had no option but to get away from them. Both of mine have passed, but I would probably have had to divorce my mother, if she were still around. Her destructiveness and viciousness were increasing to the point where it was clear I would not survive for long if she ever got her hooks completely into me - financially or otherwise.

here's Samantha!'s thread:

http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3/index.php?topic=2383.msg37675#msg37675

good luck. the hardest thing in this situation - at least, for me - is everyone around you trying to convince you not to believe what you know is true, because they don't want to have to think about it. here, at least, you will be believed.

[Gaining Strength]

I only have a minute to reply but this is such a significant thread for me.

I'm a Miss Buttinski too.  That's why I love having a voice here.  This issue of divorcing a parent (living or dead) is so rich because there is no clear answer.  But I have a couple of thoughts that I want to share.  One is that divorce may or may not be permanent.  I have divorced my mother twice and later reestablished a relationship.  (more about that later.) But also divorce can be done even after death.  It really has to do with letting go.  I guess the best word for me is to "unattach".  And unattaching from Ns is essential in order to thrive.  The question is is you can unattach while being around an N and that really does depend on each individual circumstances.

Hate to go but my mother has my son and is calling me. 

Gaining Strength

[penelope]

hi miss voiceinski,

(just sounded more positive that way).  First of all, I want to say welcome.

Next, as to the very serious question you've posed, should you divorce your N mother?  For me personally, since I've made the choice to divorce both my parents (and most of my enabling siblings) I've felt a lot better.  That I kept asking "should I do it?" was a sign for me anyway, that I needed to.  Once you start listening to yourself and trusting yourself it becomes easier. 

I few very good books that helped me were:

Toxic Parents, by Susan Forward
Divorcing a Parent, by Beverly Engel

Also, I have a very supportive and understanding therapist (who I found out later, happened to be divorced from her father for 10 years).

hugs,
pb

[OR]

butinski : Does calling yourself the nic-name your mother gave you give her power?

I think names have power, try calling your mother by her first name, say her name as though she was a neighbor you can't move away from.

My mothers birthday was yesterday I do not call her I send a card that says I love you take care nothing more.
I address her letters with her first name not mom, I have had no relationship with her for 25 years.

I don't let her get to me anymore, I see her as a person that had been abused by her parents and never overcame the abuse. Her abuse was not her fault and somehow that means she can not take responsibly for any abuse she might do.  She did some things as a good mother but she has a self-absorbed part and hurts others without a care.  

You must decide if the affects of having the relationship is more hurtful  and lingers on with sadness and confussion. I had difficulty shaking off her unthinking remarks and unloving actions, I decided long ago after many tears that I could not emotionally survive with her in my life.

Take Care ... OR

[Certain Hope]

Welcome, Miss B

  I think that you're the only one who can answer the question you've asked.
Detachment/ becoming unattached may indeed take more drastic measures than simply avoiding contact.
For me, distance (1,000 miles) worked wonders.

With love,
Hope

[penelope]

hi again,

Here's a couple excerpts from the book Divorcing a Parent, that may help:

"Divorcing a parent can, indeed, be a very healthy choice for adult children whose parents have been or continue to be abusive, neglectful, or overly controlling.  Divorcing a parent can help a client to:

- individuate
- stop being the victim
- break the cycle of violence."

(this is from the last chapter, and was specifically written for therapists).  This reminds me that in my own struggle, the current support I have: of my b/f and therapist, can not be overemphasized.  I have actually been trying to divorce my parents for at least the last 15 years..I was only recently able to do it, however, because I do have this support now that I didn't have before.  I think back to when I was married, and my ex-husband did not support my decision to have no-contact with N Mom & Dad... (they called him and made me out to be the "bad guy"... angry, vindictive, the one who was trying to hurt them... and he sympathized with them).

So these factors will likely play a role in your decision if you're like me.  Remember: you can take a "Time Out."  If your mother is anything like mine, it will be tough saying: "I just need a couple months to think.  Can you give me a little space?  It's not that I'm mad at you, I'm just really confused and would like to give our relationship a little rest.  thanks"  Is right now, before the holidays hit, as fine a time as any?  Can you tell us about your circumstances a little MV? 

hugs,
p. bean

[Overcomer]

Hello Miss B:  I wasn't allowed to butt in.  Mom would often times put her hand over my mouth.......I told her that to this day I am still fighting to be heard.

Many people have told me to run as fast as I can away from my narcissistic mother........................problem is my situation has me tied to her financially.........I work in the family business - have great pay and hours but have no voice and am invalidated at every turn.  It is emotionally draining and it is crazy making!!

Anyway, so I am working methodically to find ways to differentiate myself from her.  There is a lot to do, but I won't "divorce" her, I will just set the biggest boundaries I can find to keep her at arms length.  She is frustrated by those boundaries (another thread) but she'll live and I'll be better.  For me, it isn't a single event - it is a process!!

Kelly

[Bones]

I only have a minute to reply but this is such a significant thread for me.

I'm a Miss Buttinski too.  That's why I love having a voice here.  This issue of divorcing a parent (living or dead) is so rich because there is no clear answer.  But I have a couple of thoughts that I want to share.  One is that divorce may or may not be permanent.  I have divorced my mother twice and later reestablished a relationship.  (more about that later.) But also divorce can be done even after death.  It really has to do with letting go.  I guess the best word for me is to "unattach".  And unattaching from Ns is essential in order to thrive.  The question is is you can unattach while being around an N and that really does depend on each individual circumstances.

Hate to go but my mother has my son and is calling me. 

Gaining Strength

How do you divorce an N after death?  What are the steps?

Bones

[Hopalong]

Hi, Bones,

I believe the answer is to create a ritual for yourself. A true, heartfelt ceremony.
I think you should find the items and words and sounds and place and timing, but some elements I think of, in case they help, might be:

--a photo of her as a child
--a photo of you as a child
--a piece of music that has, ever, given you a flash of comfort
--something from nature that represents the endless renewal of life, the universe's capacity to absorb all hurt (a shell, a pinecone, a rock)
--a small soft toy
--another

A letter, that you write to her punishing adult self, whom you must set out of your heart. And in which you also give love to her damaged little childself.
And in which you give love and comfort to your childself whom she damaged.
And in which you give permission to MOVE ON, to your adult self, by letting her go, into the universe, without any more anger, and without any more guilt.

You can put it all together.
What do you think?

What kind of ritual might help you to do this?

(((Bones)))

Hops

[penelope]

hi bones,

I don't know if I'm remembering this right, but I believe in the Divorcing the Parent book the author touches on this, and if I remember right she suggests like hops said, reviving some specific old memories with a few props.  After you've got an idea of your mother in your mind and are really focusing on the things she did to you that were abusive, hurtful, or otherwise damaging, you can have a conversation with her (use two chairs, pretending she is in one).  You can play both parts if you like, switching from her to you.

By confronting your passed N parent in this way, you can give yourself power and them less power over you...

I think that's the idea anyway.

Something that really touched me in this book was when the author explained a grad student of hers, who needed to do this.  He kept trying to think of his parent, and the damage, but no emotions (strong ones anyway) would come...it is not an easy task if the pain is very deep, buried so far beneath those layers of protection.  Anyway, she (as his T) was able to help him uncover the pain by asking some specific questions - so you can also do the exercise with your T, if they're qualified.  Finally, through her questioning he was able to relive the pain, and I remember he said something like "this hurts like Hell.."  He was remembering his Dad beating up on him everyday, and he asked things (pretending his T was his deceased father) like:  "Dad, why did you do that to me?"  and to Mom: " Mom, why did you let him? " The pain is necessary though, cause if it's not released, it is like a hard rock within us.

hugs,
pb

[reallyME]

Ms B, I agree with whomever questioned you in your use of that nic that your N"Mother" used to call you.  In fact, I will emphatically say that it is as though you are speaking it over yourself that that is who you are, over and over again.  Please, consider who you want to be known as, not taking on the evil vicious labels that your mother put on you.  Just a strong urge...not a suggestion.

~RM

[Gaining Strength]

Bones I think Hopalong and penelope have given good answers, certainly more authoritative than mine but I'll give a little bit of a twist on thier replies.

My father's voice guides my every minute whether I see him or not, whether he is living or dead.  For me, divorcing him is cutting him out of my life - not my external life - he is not a problem for me there but in my internal life where he rules and ruins.  So I must divorce him from my mind.  For me it starts with identifying what thoughts are actually from him.  And when I recognize a destructive thought as something from him, then I can overwrite it.  

For example recently I was thinking about a small project I wanted to take on.  I kept dragging my feet and finally as time was running out I realized that what was going on was the imperceptible voice, "You can't do that."  And it was his.  He was telling me, "No."  Not for any reason but simply to be in control.  And all of a sudden I realized that I could respond.  Not in real life.  My father has never allowed me or my brothers (the oldest is 50) to contradict him or to say no to him.  How outrageous is that!  But Thursday night I said, "NO." and I went on got out my scissors cut up some fabric and made a cute little clown costume for my 5 year olds kindergarden clown parade Friday morning.  

This conversation with my father was not in real time - it was in "my"ber space, but it was as real and as controlling as if in real time.  So for me, divorcing him is developing the ability to say, "No" to that wretched voice that rings in my mind, whether my father is living or not.

For years I tried to divorce him in anger.  That did not work for me.  I finally had to divorce him in love. I love that person he could have been if not for the NPD.  But I am able to set boundaries with the part of him that is NPD.  All of this in "my"ber space.  But that's what I meant by divorcing dead or alive.  Hope that helps.

Gaining Strength