N as Sabateur

[Stormchild]

How direct is too direct?

How real is too real?

Just wondering... how one decides this, and what the gradations are. I know what I think, but I want to know what others think.

[Certain Hope]

Stormy, I don't know.... and that's the problem.  Eagerly awaiting the input of others with their thoughts.

Hope

[gratitude28]

Hi again, Plucky...
You know, I think you are reading too much into the failed attempts you had. I know for me there are a LOT of people I would not want as friends... So maybe it was best that the friendships ended early on. I'm not trying to gloss over it, but friendships really are few and far between. I think m,ost of my "more serious acquaintanceships" come from groups I am involved in - AA, other crazy dog owners, people in my painting class. I wouldn't become a drunk just to make friends, if I were you, but is there another kind of hobby you and your child could do together where you might meet some new people? Bungee jumping? Advanced gymnastics? A reading group at the library? Reall, I think it just works so well if you meet someone with a fun common interest.
Love, Beth

[Certain Hope]

ahem... Bungee jumping??        


Plucky, I vote for the library reading group 


(((((((((Beth )))))))))

[Hopalong]

Awww, Plucky. Your husband is the one controlling your time talking to girlfirends? 
Or was that previous H (forgive, I can't remember, I'm senile...)

Only other thing is: women's support group, women's support group...
we had married and single and all sorts of women in some I've been to.
It was always, always valuable and sometimes led to friendships....

Hate thinking of you lonely. 

Hops

[Plucky]

Thank you everyone for helping me feel less alone.    Your advice is great and your presence is priceless.
I had a bad experience yesterday and it really got me down.    But now that you mention activities, of which we have loads,  there is one person I talked to last week who showed some interest in doing some things together. In my intense bout of being pathetic, I had forgotten.  I  have some hope!  I hope I won't crash and burn as usual.  See you same time next week after I've been kicked to the kerb. 
I do feel some discomfort with the person who lied about the excuse.  Why couldn't she just say she didn't feel like it?  How much longer before I misread one of her cryptic (to me) cues and flub up again, earning another dismissal?   Is this a skill I am really going to need to have a social life and a friend?  I don't think I can hack it!
The bad experience was a social event, which are as scarce as dodo bird sightings in my life, and I tried to dress up nicely and meet some new people.  I  felt that I looked ok, and people gravitated towards me, but when they got a whiff of my loser stench they bolted.  I also realised that the late date at which I was invited meant I was a second, maybe third choice.  And since I spend all my time with my children I had no conversation beyond being awed at everyone's accomplishments, and how do they do it all.
 
I just feel there is this hole in my heart and it can be gouged out at any time by this type of rejection.  It is frightening how low I can sink so quickly.  For a while I could not see a way out.
Ok enough pity party.  Thank you and go to bed.
Plucky

[Certain Hope]

ok Plucky   nite nite

((((((((((((((Plucky))))))))))))))

Love,
Hope

[gratitude28]

Plucky,
I think it will help when you get a bit beyond caring... you know, when you feel like, "Hey, I am happy with me and that is enough." People gravitate towards that kind of energy. I think you ARE giving out an "OK... you are close enough... get lost" vibe. I think it reinforces your bad feelings about yourself. I don't mean that you WANT to hurt yourself, but in a way you are still punishing yourself. It is part of that cycle where you say, see, I knew it would always be this way. So next time, hold your head high, let them gravitate and be a bit mysterious! Mysterious is always fun. Once you get past the initial meeting phase and can get to know a person (and remember, it has to be the right kind of person too), things can be more serious and deep. I have to say, I do share my real feelings with people, but not overly much as I do keep a look out for the "glazed" look one of our group mentioned here.
Lots of love and a good sleep... I could have stayed in bed this morning!!!!
Love, Beth

[Stormchild]

Plucky, based on decades [ ] of experience, most people at parties / mixers / etc. can't figure out how to talk to someone they don't already know, on anything but the most superficial of levels. Unless they're 'on the prowl'...

If you are any good at small talk you may still be frustrated because so many conversations stall at that level.

If you are no good at small talk you'll be even more frustrated because you won't be having many conversations.

Best to try and find a group with a shared interest, and make sure your values also align with the group's real values [so that you don't find yourself listening to a tirade about 'those people' when you happen to be one of them, such as a single mother, or a Christian, or a Buddhist...].

And trust your gut. If you don't feel comfortable, don't try too hard to ignore that feeling. Wait a bit, see if it's just normal jitters, or you're picking up on something real.

[Plucky]

Thank you Gratitude, Stormy, and Hope, and Gaining Strength I am sorry to have hijacked.    I was just feeling so low yesterday and did not feel up to starting a new thread.
I think there must be something I am giving off at some point that makes people draw back.  Maybe I am just waiting for the big kissoff.   
I do have a hard time seeing th next step any more.  When someone does make an overture, I am so surprised that I do nto know how to respond.  Sometimes I respond very badly.
This is very hard work.  I am in a weakened state because my N mother is coming to visit.  It is never fun.
Hoppy, my estranged H is the one who, if I got on the phone with one of my girlfriends, and was visibly excited and happy, would mope around the house, interrupt me continuously, look repeatedly at his watch, get in my face and ask me how long I was going to talk, tell me I had been on for x minutes, and finally start to treat the children roughly, and that is when I would get off the phone.  After a while my friends started to think the whole thing was wierd, and that they were getting in the way of my marriage or something.
Plucky

[gratitude28]

Hmmm... Plucky... could the two things be somehow related now? Obviously you had no problem chatting with your friends then. Do you have some anxious feeling left over from the EX's behavior? I agree that you are doing something to sabotage the attempts, but why is the question you need to answer.
Love, Beth

[Gaining Strength]

Plucky-

What's the subject of this thread?

my estranged H is the one who, if I got on the phone with one of my girlfriends, and was visibly excited and happy, would mope around the house, interrupt me continuously, look repeatedly at his watch, get in my face and ask me how long I was going to talk, tell me I had been on for x minutes, and finally start to treat the children roughly, and that is when I would get off the phone.  After a while my friends started to think the whole thing was wierd, and that they were getting in the way of my marriage or something.

Can you say sa bo tage?

I do think Gratitude has a good point.  I know she has me pegged on this one.

I think it will help when you get a bit beyond caring... you know, when you feel like, "Hey, I am happy with me and that is enough." People gravitate towards that kind of energy. I think you ARE giving out an "OK... you are close enough... get lost" vibe. I think it reinforces your bad feelings about yourself. I don't mean that you WANT to hurt yourself, but in a way you are still punishing yourself. It is part of that cycle where you say, see, I knew it would always be this way. So next time, hold your head high, let them gravitate and be a bit mysterious! Mysterious is always fun.

I have really made a 180 in just a few months by changing the way I think about myself and my social encounters.  Before I go somewhere I anticipate my own negative thoughts and then I start working on affirmations that will counter these negative thoughts.  If I can do this for a day or two in advance - all the better.  I know things are going well when I can do this right in the middle of a social event. 

Keep searching for what is going wrong.  You are getting close to an answer.  - your friend - Gaining Strength

[Hopalong]

Wow ((((((((((((Plucky))))))))))))))))))

Hypothetical: If you had internalized an abusive message such as you don't deserve to connect happily with people (and if you try someone will wreck your pleasure ASAP)...well then, if you had come to accept their interpretation as what "real" is....what "deserving to be happy is".

who wouldn't be nervous and put out uncomfortable vibes at a friendly overture?

I say THEY'RE unreal (and they do NOT have the job of correcting your emotions). I think you're uncomfortable with people now for a good reason, it makes an internal emotional sense. And just like any OTHER unreality that peels gradually away and reveals its true nature, you're going to wake up to that and let go of it. Just as soon as you see it clearly enough and are ready to look at it, call it what it is, yank it out of yourself, and feel yourself liking yourself, in a circle spreading about 5 feet around you. That's enough space to start filling with your self-love. You can be generous or mysterious or playful or straightforward or shy or silly in your self-love circle.

Because there'll be a happier, friendlier, healthier reality that YOU choose to live in instead.
It's not their place to take away your ability to relax and be happy. They may try. But you just might start throwing those peels on the sidewalk.

They're just bits of peel. They'll wither. You won't.

love,
Hops

[Plucky]

Can you say sa bo tage?

Doh.......you bet!  (you're funny.  I had to laugh a good one at myself)

I think this is how it goes.  I have my strategy (my outfit.  What I will talk about.   Why I am sooooo attractive as a friend) and then I sally forth to implement.  It goes ok for a while.  I am happy.  Things are clicking.  Then something happens that I am not sure how to interpret.  Maybe something is said that I don't know how to respond to or I respond badly.  Maybe someone gets called away to another conversation.  The talk turns to something cool I don't know about or a place I haven't been invited and they all have.  Maybe I stay too long in the conversation before moving on (my forte).

Then I crumple.  I knew I had no business here.  I  mentally bang my head against the wall.  Usually I can go on and recover.  But when I am alone, the real self hatred starts.

Now I think it also has something to do with the fact that as a child my father rarely let me go on outings my sister went on. The excuse was that I was too young, but I reached and surpassed the age she had been at and was still Cinderella in the house dressed in rags. (For this insight, I thank one mother who refused to take my sister to an outing with her daughters after she came to pick us up, found out I was not going and did not accept the reasons why.  Thank you, thank you, for calling this to my attention for the first time!  If you think a single moment cannot affect a child's life, think again.)

I also link this to being bullied at the brink of adolescence by a group of stylish girls, led by one in particular whose intense hatred of me I could never fathom.   At a reunion long ago, I saw them and even then, as adults, they made jokes about me finally becoming 'cool', since I was cute, well-dressed, and with a hot guy.   (Sigh.  The good old days.)   

Thank you for working this through with me.  I have to say my intense feelings yesterday were overwhelming, even though I did not think I had good reason.   I had the odd sensation of sinking down into a well,  and I was not sure how low I was going to go.

Just as soon as you see it clearly enough and are ready to look at it, call it what it is, yank it out of yourself, and feel yourself liking yourself,

I am envisioning some movie I saw where a person had to use a pair of pliers to wrench out an alien implant.  It was brutal, painful, and so necessary.  Thanks for that Hoppy.

Do you have some anxious feeling left over from the EX's behavior?

I think now I am afraid to make contact because of the times he embarrassed me.  I'll invite people over and he makes sure the house is a wreck.   I accept an invitation and then he decides he won't care for the kids. 

Hi gratitude/Beth, I am happy wth me but I have no one to talk to except my children, and they are very young.  I really want flesh and blood friends too.    I am social and I'm all pent up.

Keep searching for what is going wrong.  You are getting close to an answer.  - your friend - Gaining Strength

Thank you.  I hope so. 

[gratitude28]

Awesome stuff, Plucky.... deep soul-digging.

I hear you on spending too much time with the kids. An "adult" day for me is watching Harry Potter as opposed to Kids Next Door. I also want to be social... I chat with people at work and that helps...

So, I guess you identified that you are trying to play God, as it were, by setting up the scene and outcome...

I used to go nuts after any conversation with ANYONE, and especially with someone I thought was cool, by analyzing every word said and how it was said and why it was said and so on. And I was so needy in school that most kids shied away from me.  I won't embarrass myself or you by telling some of my lamentable tales...

Lots of love, Plucky.
Beth