Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > What Helps?
The Emotional Christian (not just for Christians, tho)
Stormchild:
P - at least for me, it's the way they 'take ownership' of what the other person has done. If they're truly caring friends, or supportive bosses, that doesn't feel creepy, it feels like support. If they're not those things, then it feels creepy because it is! It's enmeshment, engulfing, trying to take away from the other person by making them a part of the person giving the 'compliment'.
It's belittling, and patronizing, too, especially when the achiever is female and the patronizer male.
Portia:
Spot on. I wonder if any therapists ever say it to clients and if so......can it ever feel healthily supportive? I guess so? Tricky i would have thought!
Certain Hope:
Hi, Portia,
You're welcome :)
Re: Your query ~ One of my friends has expressed to me a similar sense of queasiness when a work colleague or another friend tells her that they're "proud" of her. It seems for her that the uncomfortable sensation is due to her fear of being held to a higher standard from that point on and she's afraid that she won't be able to maintain that same level of accomplishment. It's like the bar is continually being raised (in her own estimation) and then she feels paralyzed. I can kinda relate to that myself, I guess.
I'm trying to remember if anyone in the past has ever said they're proud of me... and no, I don't think so. In recent memory, one of my older daughters expressed pride in me when I dyed my hair a rather unusual shade of auburn (resembling purplish-red) :shock:
lol... I guess she figured there's hope for me yet to be "mod" (do they even still say mod...? t'was one of my Grandma's words)
And my husband says this to me on occasion, which never makes me feel queasy, because I take it as his acknowledgement of my efforts to overcome in some of my own personal struggles.
The pride in ones-self that you mention ("I'm so great/good/compassionate/loving...etc".) is the sort, I believe, which leads to downfall. I agree with you that it's false. In my own life, just about the time I think I've overcome something completely, a bigger challenge will come along to prove that I still have a long way to go. To me, it is far healthier to have that satisfying sense of accomplishment, as opposed to pride, in achievements, not in self, because self is a work in progress at all times. That's how I see it, anyway.
Stormy, your description of someone taking ownership of another's achievement is one of the chief trademarks of my mother. brother, and NPD ex-husband. By the same token, each of these individuals were capable of extreme shaming behavior when I didn't properly reflect them in their estimation. You said, It's enmeshment, engulfing, trying to take away from the other person by making them a part of the person giving the 'compliment'. Exactly.
Thank you, both.
Hope
Portia:
Hi Hope, thanks for your reply. Re your friend, that's interesting. I guess because I'm alerted by anything that could remotely 'control' me, I feel odd with the 'proud of' comment becasue I feel it's intrusive and something about ownership (by them!). With your friend, feeling like the bar's being raised - isn't it perhaps also the idea that if someone says they are 'proud of' what you've done...then...just maybe they didn't expect you to accomplish it? It suggests perhaps they thought it might not happen? Just musing here. So I can see that it might sound like: 'you've done so well, we're really proud of you (because we didn't really expect you to do it)' and implicit is (to someone who self-doubts) ' and we now have expectations that you will live up to this achievement'??
I like purple-ish-red for hair! do they even still say mod...? mm probably not. Cool? Cool! 8)
And my husband says this to me on occasion, which never makes me feel queasy, because I take it as his acknowledgement of my efforts to overcome in some of my own personal struggles.
Yes, and you know his intention is good. Good :D
satisfying sense of accomplishment, as opposed to pride, in achievements
I see the difference. Yes I mean accomplishment. As opposed to 'I did this, isn't IT great' (to other) it's more to self 'I'm really satisfied with that'. I want to accomplish but I guess not necessarily achieve. (Achieve sounds like it's all over, you've 'won', and I really don't understand that.)
Thanks CH.
Certain Hope:
Hi again, Portia,
Re: I guess because I'm alerted by anything that could remotely 'control' me, I feel odd with the 'proud of' comment becasue I feel it's intrusive and something about ownership (by them!).
The something about ownership may be a matter of "Oh, so NOW I've finally lived up to your standard?!? And what makes you think YOU can define what's right/good/proper/pride-worthy for me??!"
But I'm only guessing. :)
With my friend, I don't think she interprets it as other people being surprised she could do it, just fear that she may not be able to "keep up the good work", which is often implied in the "I'm proud of you" statement.
Reminds me of a thing my husband has about this comment: "No problem". For instance, when you're shopping and you ask a customer service person to check whether a certain product is in stock (which is basically his job in the first place) and his response to you is "no problem" (as though you've asked him to do you a favor, but he'll oblige you out of the goodness of his heart).
lol... I dunno... words/expressions can certainly resonate with people differently, depending on their individual perspective.
You're absolutely right about trusting someone's good intentions making all the difference, I think.
So many aspects to consider... I prefer to live in simplicity and .. yes, even ignorance, when possible. I guess that's why avoidance comes so naturally to me :P Alas ... simplicity seems rarely possible in this world, which is why I am coming to value even more my immediate family and the rapport we're building here at home (and in this VESMB Group too, I think!) by saying simply what we mean and meaning what we say, all the while willing to explore the gray areas when necessary. I just ate a chocolate bar, so rambling could continue indefinitely if I don't get back to work.
Thanks, P.
Hope
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