Divorce

[Stormchild]

Hops, m'dear, if you want to meet someone other than Unitarian geezers, you have to hang out with people other than Unitarian geezers ... does your church not have a 'midlife singles' group? Are there other church 'midlife singles' groups in the vicinity? Not all of them demand that you show up on Sundays too...

[WRITE]

Ten years of friendship undone by one statement of pain, caused by the other person.  Funny old world, isn't it?     Which is why I need this thread today, to help me to remain sane in the face of this kind of stuff.

maybe not undone. If you have bipolar 1 you become an expert at patching up relationships, can you get past this emotional exchange?

Now wondering, if he withdrew his friendship, how exactly would I tell the difference?

sometimes a friendship has just gone stale, sometimes it dies....it's nice to be on good terms with everyone but if it doesn't feel reciprocal it hurts after a while. Only you know if you're holding onto something that doesn't work for you or if it is worth keeping. Sometimes old friendships where there's nostalgia etc it's hard to tell though!

Here's a great big hug for you (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

It's hard when someone can't hear you.

The irony of typing that is that my ex just attacked me saying I don't hear him. Sometimes I wonder if I really have computer privacy and he looks at what I'm doing, he set up all this network and is still the administrator....not that I care, I have nothing to hide and don't write anything I wouldn't say to him....and his undermining makes me paranoid enough.

We're having a party and trying to be nice I have invited everyone- him, the street kids, all my friends, his friends, crush guy ( who hasn't said whether he will come or if he'll bring a date ) Anyway ex has focused in on crush guy, and decided that he broke up our relationship ( I didn't even know this guy until 18 months after we separated! ) All the N came out anyway and he said he'll be mean to him and 'assert his superiority' since he's the reason for his pain.

Now I know my ex, and he'll go away, work out how unreasonable he's being, and calm down; that's why I talked to him a week in advance really.

But it is quite a slap in the face to have tried so hard to do right with him and see just how intractable his behaviour is.

He really does not care about me, can't care. He has no love for me, no way of taking care of my feelings.

He said I always prioritise myself, I don't hear him and I am only rushing my divorce to be with other guys. I don't know anyone who has taken this long over a divorce! It's so unreasonable of him it's laughable.

I've been detaching by degrees for a while, but today was the first time I realised there will be no more corporate occasions, and I am not going to share my experiences or feelings with him from now.

It's not helping him, and it's too painful for me.

I thought my libido was dead in the water, but I just saw my "first love" for two hours yesterday, and I can tell I still have desire. It's just been snuffed and buried. He is married, we were just having coffee as old friends, and I wouldn't encourage or consider anything else. But I remembered in a surge what it was like, so many years ago, to love someone with my whole heart and whole body. I really have never loved anyone like that since. And I still felt the attraction after 38 years!!!!!!!!

(Didn't help that he told me he thinks about me a lot.) But we were very proper, despite the memories.

wow, it's neat some attraction woke you up Hops, though I am glad you were proper given he is married, affairs don't feel right.

Probably helps that you've been getting the rest you need and are more relaxed away from work too.

Will you have to work not to let this turn into a 'fantasy relationship' given what you've said, or is that something you are over doing? I'm not quite sure about this fusion concept, I'll have to look it up.

Now if I could only meet someone other than Unitarian geezers!

hah! My ex came to church with me once and remarked 'distinct lack of testosterone around here!'  

Write - you're so very brave, and I'm glad you aren't forcing yourself to go through this unsupported in realspace -

Maybe I'm stubborn! And I'm sure when my ex becomes unpleasant & cuts me off I'll feel like I've been stupid for a while, but I have done my best, I really have. I'm tired now though.

It's interesting, my ex didn't approve of me seeing the therapist. He said I was wasting money.
He's stalling on the divorce, I know he'll be a pain the next few weeks until it's done. Maybe talking to him today i was just anticipating ( even precipitating ) that. Anyway it reinforced calling her was the right thing.

I couldn't cry despite his stinging words, it's not worth crying any more over. I've cried so many tears he'll never even know whilst he's been switching his emotions on and off.

I do wonder how all this is going to affect my son long-term though, my ex was spoiling for this fight ever since I told him i was going ahead with filing....he said 'daddy's mean' this morning and then he can't explain, but I know exactly, that bombastic sneering that comes out whenever he's conflicted.

Going to go out to the cinema with friends now, let's salvage the rest of the evening!

What's everyone else doing? ( I realise the folks in the UK are probably headed to bed! )

[Hopalong]

Ow, Write:
I recognize "bombastic sneering." My first H was quite good at that. Thank you for reminding me. As painful as this event has been for you it sounds like a blessing to me (or will be in hindsight)... Now I KNOW you're going to push on through this okay. Better than okay. Bravo to you. He has been getting the best of you for a loooooooooong time, and you just drew a real and significant boundary by not rising to the bait and by deciding not to confide in him any more. BRAVO.

Remember that long list I typed of the characteristics of "faux intimacy" from Schaef's book? I was worried you were heading in that direction with El Crusho. That's why I suggested it again. But you know best what your tolerance is (though it's been too high for pain for too long, you know!).

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my little drama when you're going through this stuff...

wow, it's neat some attraction woke you up Hops, though I am glad you were proper given he is married, affairs don't feel right.

I know. Wouldn't consider that with him at all. In fact, when he took my email address, I said don't write me anything you wouldn't want your wife to read, okay?

Probably helps that you've been getting the rest you need and are more relaxed away from work too.

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss. Less stressssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss !

Will you have to work not to let this turn into a 'fantasy relationship' given what you've said, or is that something you are over doing? I'm not quite sure about this fusion concept, I'll have to look it up.

Nope. No work. I am not considering anything of the sort, he was just in town for a wedding and is on his way back to Florida. It was, however, a great comfort to my soul to see this person I loved once with all my heart, and have him acknowledge it was just as real for him. He was literally my first love. My first lover. My first romance. And it was a passionate one. I was grateful that he basically told me he has never forgotten me. And likewise. But I have no illusions about adult compatibility...and I am very glad he found a suitable, good woman to marry.

Now if I could only meet someone other than Unitarian geezers!

hah! My ex came to church with me once and remarked 'distinct lack of testosterone around here!'

Wellllllllllllll now. That's brutal! True I do want a manly liberal feminist guy. I'm sure they're out there! One thing I told my first love today when he remembered one fight we'd had...I said, "Nobody's going to tell me what to do, you know and you were trying to." He said, I was wrong.

THAT was wonderful. I still remember the boy in him, and he clearly remembered the girl in me!

hugs,
Hops

[WRITE]

I am dazed Hops, it's like there's no end to my ex's odd behaviour.

The truth is in trying to help I've got too close, he doesn't do close, and I guess he'll run from the open honest relationship we've been trying to set up.

The worst thing is- it hurts. I said something today about having come so far, getting so healthy, and he looked at me and said 'but that's about you' and suddenly it hit me forcefully- he'd rather I was mentally ill, an alcoholic, no self-esteem, messed up- anything so long as he still has some control. It's not a relationship he cares about with me, it's about keeping me down so I don't move on, which he doesn't see as healthy for us all but as rejection.

I just looked at one of your posts, the one with 'instant intimacy'. I didn't do that with El Crusho ( as he'll be known hereafter) but I did think there was intimacy developing between us and as it grew he stopped returning my calls/ emails whilst still being very affectionate even sexual when he saw me. When I pulled back one day he grabbed me to hug me he seemed hurt. So yes, there's something not right. I suspect he wants sex not a relationship and from what he's told me about his life/background that's not easy for him. T'ain't going to happen with me! I haven't seen him flirt with anyone else. Heck, I can't even analyse it any more- I just don't know- but I've put things on a friendly basis and now it's time to tiptoe backwards out the room, in case I set off another psycopath!

when he took my email address, I said don't write me anything you wouldn't want your wife to read, okay?

I think that's right. I haven't ever done an affair but I had two very brief flings in my life & one of the guys I knew was married, she was a friend & I could not face her after, decided not to see either of them any more ( the other was deceptive at first- though I did see him 3 or 4 times after I realised he was very married ) it was so crappy I vowed never again to do anything mean.

I know sometimes these things seem to 'just happen' and I did start to drift into another when I was very lonely but I'd learnt my lesson and said no.

I still remember the boy in him, and he clearly remembered the girl in me!

sweet.

I never had any 'normal' relationships back then, I've been with ex most of my life apart from a couple of breaks and a divorce and the last two years 9 months.

Strange evening tonight. The friends I met, she is very insecure about her boyfriend and when I arrived she waved but didn't come over, she looked at me a bit strange? So by the time I got to the huge theatre I couldn't find them. I went and watched the movie on my own! Bumped into her in the ladies on the way out and I wondered if they would have waited for me at all? She was all friendly on the phone when I was driving there.

One of the best things about being fat all my adult life was it got rid of this jealousy reaction from insecure women, I am starting to look good again now and it's happening again!

Guess I'll have to toughen up though, 'cos I intend to get to goal weight this time and stay there. I'm really careful not to flirt or make people jealous these days, honestly- I need some more healthy people to hang out with, who said that the other night? I refuse to tread on the eggshells with anyone any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Feeling crappy- time for a big long sleep.

Night everyone.

[Hopalong]

Sleep tight, Write.
I went to a movie by myself tonight too!

Flicka, a young girl's horse movie....terrible acting but great horses and great Western scenery....

You're doing good, Ol' Skinny.

There's a WORLD of decent caring people out there for you to discover.

I'm very sorry for the pain and emptiness you're facing about your soon-to-be-Ex.

Eventually, I promise word of honor, you will look back at him UNMOVED.
I'm sure you'll feel a detached compassion one day, but no more pain.

It will come. Have faith, ride the waves, and Write, you will be there, in your better life.

love,
Hops

[WRITE]

wish you lived inTX- we could maybe go together?!

It was funny ( like so much ) I had 2 lovely conversations waiting in line, then didn't talk to my self-obsessed acquaintances all night, and even though I drove an hour to get there they were tired after the movie so no coffee invite....in my thankfulness journal it was 2 strangers who provided me with human contact after my difficult day with X-man ( my friend's term which I am now going to steal, er borrow )

And you Hops- you give me more kindness than I deserve, you are so encouraging and loving.

In England we used to differentiate that- friendship from acquaintance- and I'm going to revive the concept in my mind. It's easier not to attach to an acquaintance and know 'it's just superficial' and just enjoy the very limited contact at times when you need to get out and keep busy.

Saying that I popped into Barnes and Noble on the way home, and thought I will do this more, there's one not far from my new apartment and noone says anything here if you read their books all night and there's a nice coffee shop.

You're doing good, Ol' Skinny.

well, I'm getting thinner and healthier, wouldn't say skinny yet! But I always rejoice when someone else does this and enjoys the buzz of looking and feeling better, so I think I can brush off any jealousy or negativity comes my way. I guess it's a touchy subject for some people, my friend last night and her boyfriend have both gained loads, maybe it was just projected anxiety about that.

I'm going to find a couple more 'Saturday night' activities though, and I read a bit of a book about a good life for one last night....I don't want to feel pressured to be with negative people just so as not to be alone.

I remember reading Flicka when I was a girl, and Black Beauty! My favourite books then were Dodie Smith's 'I capture the castle' and William Rayner 'Big Mister' but I read everything. I did have a lot of superficial friendships and get invited to things, but I didn't connect much with other people. My happiest hours were in nature or curled up on my bed under the covers with a bag of candy reading!

I'd learn reams of poetry by heart ( still can recite it! ) and listen to music, I was perfectly content and that's what I want to rediscover.

How life comes full circle...you will be there, in your better life.

Mantra for Sunday.

[Brigid]

Hops,
I was pretty much celibate for the last 10-15 years of my marriage (we probably had sex 5-6 times a year, but only when I insisted).  When you don't have it, you stop thinking about it and desiring it (for the most part) and you think your libido is in the tank.  But I'm here to tell you, that if you have a partner with whom you have great chemistry, that libido can start doing backflips--even at 56. 

BTW, I agree with Stormy that you need to find a better source for men than the UU church crowd.  If a good feminist is what you're looking for, I would say the coffee shops at your local university would be a good starting point.  I was contacted by several university professors while searching for love on the internet.  They're out there looking for love, too.


Write,
I'm so glad to hear you saying the things you are about your stbx.  You seem to be getting much more realistic about what you can expect from him in the future and the way he has been treating you.   I think you are quickly gaining the strength and determination necessary to complete the nasty task of divorce.  You really will feel a great sense of relief when it is over and done.

It has been so nice to have someone with whom to cuddle up with on a regular basis.  In 18 months, we've never even said an angry word to one another, so we do have peace and harmony, but also a lot of fun.  For both of us, it is so different than it was with our ex's, that we don't even know what to make of it sometimes, but we are grateful to have it and try to make the most of it.

Hugs,

Brigid 

 

[Hopalong]

You bet, Write...would be happy to be your movie mate!
You are sounding really good. I hear all kinds of openness and possibility popping into your head.
There will be simple days that are peaceful and even if every piece isn't in place, you will be there.
We're all taking the same walk...because even "there" is always moving.
Life's today. Now. And I'm happy to be typing to someone who deserves every kindness.

(And me too, I need to plan Saturday night fun.)

Brigid,
Your relationship gives me such warm feelings. It is absolutely clear to me that if I want a lovely companion I'll find one. I think soon I will go on the Net. I enjoyed it before my last exercise in bad judgement, and have no fears of having coffee with a string of nice men. I know my red flags by heart now, and I've also learned how to say, one date's enough and thank you. So that's easier.

Meanwhile, I'm nursing my back, and need to get some things done at home (paperwork...) before I venture out in new social directions. Maybe early December, sounds a good time. I think I remember more men were looking around then, as the holidays are tough for singles.

Will keep y'all posted! (No pun intended.) 

Hops

[WRITE]

the coffee shops at your local university would be a good starting point.

I am going to hang out in Barnes and Noble more- for the books not the guys, honest!- but I will check out who looks single there!

You seem to be getting much more realistic

or less hopeful....

Actually he was fine again today. I think he thinks he's 'setting boundaries' when he acts like yesterday! He's a pretty toxic guy to hang out with, not much respect for anyone else. I want things sweet as possible if possible, if not maybe it'll be a signal to make an even bigger break and move away.

I am so glad you are happy Brigid, it gives hope to people like me. I'm quite excited to think I will one day soon be free to find happiness, or at least keep looking!

It is absolutely clear to me that if I want a lovely companion I'll find one.

wow Hops, that is so positive. And you are right, a lovely guy will be entranced with you.

I've also learned how to say, one date's enough and thank you.

that's what I'll need to learn, I can say 'no thank you' in my best British accent and move on!

the holidays are tough for singles.

the holidays were tougher being married for me- how I love it now dropping in on X-man and having him cook and I help him load the dishwasher and leave...

I don't even put up a tree, he does it all, this guy who stayed in bed most of the day when we were together!

Where would you post on the internet, match.com or eharmony or something?

ps. hope your back's better soon.

[Hopalong]

I think I would do the internet (match.com) again. I tried eHarmony but at first their test didn't even allow me to be a Unitarian Universalist, and I got no matches. And it's expensive. And...I think it doesn't (or it didn't use to) allow you to look locally...you have to look all over the country?
One of our local alternative weeklies also does its own.

One thing I've been wanting to try is www.singlebooklovers.com. Just sounds different.

And Storm, thanks for suggesting other churches' midlife groups (ours has none). Do you think it would be offensive for a UU to turn up at an Episcopalian group, for example? Feels funny.

Hops

[WRITE]

Do you think it would be offensive for a UU to turn up at an Episcopalian group, for example?

I don't know much about Episcopalians, but most churches are very welcoming with me as I travel around on Sundays, it's only the strange personality cult shaped ones where people have been unfriendly ( and a couple of them were UU! )

A lot of the churches here do concerts and talks with refreshments after, I'd be really comfortable to talk to anyone in that setting.

****

Well, told X-man ( again ) I will be putting the first divorce petition in, and the process. He seems resigned now, he did say earlier 'you won't do what I want' and I turned and said 'what do you want?" and he said 'oh, I don't know!'

He was fussing about money- why do I insist on tying him in to it legally and it might be unfair on him, I told him he has a habit of doing mean stuff when he's hurt, and this is how it has to be. He said 'if I didn't want to pay it I wouldn't' and I said 'I am well aware of that, I am trusting you will do what you need to do for our family'.

To be honest, I don't much care in a way- I have to detach, he'll do what he'll do, and I have learned from experience the mean stuff comes when I am least expecting it and like this week saying I am rushing divorce after taking 3 years over a separation, he can be irrational when he's worked up.

I'm ill today- laryngitis, literally voiceless, funny I didn't feel panic, I worked today and it wasn't so good with not much voice ( I was teaching and music directing not singing ) so I called tomorrow's job and she said stay home and rest, and that I can slip in an extra group if I need the money when I am better.

I feel so balanced- well today I do- everything will be okay.

*****

El Crusho wrote to me again yesterday, my heart has stopped thudding over that too, it's down-sizing into a pleasant correspondence & I'm not too worried where it leads for now.

Let's just get my divorce done with- so pleased for OR- that will be me in a few weeks!!!!!!!!!!