Baffled and manipulated by narcissist lack of empathy

[sea storm]

I was doing ok and that was mainly by having no contact with N. I spoke to him and he is so hurt. I have hurt him by being mentally ill. This is the first conversation I have had with him since learning about Narcissism. I asked him if he realized that talking to his new "friend" every night on the phone and emailing her was a covert affair. He  to the mortgage and he put the questions back to me. Using that echoing method. Well, you are so careless with money what was the point.(WHHHHHAAAATTT). He even got me to feel sorry for him for being impotent with his new girlfrien. Things aren't going to well now that she has found out that he doesn't have a job, is impotent and has nowhere to live.He told her via email that he was semi-retired and his spelling was poor due to not having his usual secretary.  I found that email.
I could feel him $1100.00. I am pretty sure he will never end up doing this. He promises stuff all the time and doesn't do it.
In a way, from a more detached place now, I can see what he does and why I would go off the deep end with frustration. No follow through, not honouring commitments, keeping a trapline of female friends for support, taking vacations by himself, not paying the mortgage, spending any money he had on his boat and his airplane.
I let him nearly completely destroy my life telling people including my daughter that I am mentally ill and have mood swings. I nearly lost my job and I have lost most of my friends. Hard to explain the downward spiral.
The only thing I can do is have no contact. I will have to do this again. I am afraid of his retaliations and his rightiousness. it is time to amputate.
B.

[Hopalong]

Sea...rough seas.
Yes, I agree it's time for no contact, unless through lawyers.
You are going to move forward to a newer, simpler life with happiness in it that he could never offer.

One brave step at a time.
I'm sorry for the loss of the dream of marriage, I know how it hurts.

Hopalong

[WRITE]

Using that echoing method

this is the most irritating of N behaviours- you will get projected onto you all their personal qualities! Ns are usually intelligent and adaptive- this blaming keeps people hooked into the conversation and relationship. Politely detach.

Is there a reason you need to be talking/ listening to them?

Steer the conversation back to whatever it is you need to be working on and try to ignore all the rest ( they won't like it and will usually escalate their attempts to a point the unreasonable nature of what they are doing becomes more obvious- it's the subtlety that throws us, and maybe a bit of flattery or crumbs of kindness )

If there's no reason to be talking to him let the conversations go for now. Be busy or unavailable.

If you're reaching out to him for your own pain or loneliness find someone else, another outlet for that- here for example.

I let him nearly completely destroy my life telling people including my daughter that I am mentally ill and have mood swings. I nearly lost my job and I have lost most of my friends.

I have Bipolar 1 disorder Sea Storm, I have immense sympathy- many people still do not 'get' mental illness, though as I am getting older I am seeing that people suffer it more and more and recognise it more and more, so hopefully that will change.

I went through the whole gamut of fear of other people's responses, but frankly the people who can't see beyond it are not my friends. It's part of my personality. Do what you can to manage it- I don't know what illness you have but I have had to give up alcohol, caffeine, junk food, change my way of working to eliminate stress where possible...it's number one priority to manage the illness is what I am saying.

People were afraid or wary of me when I was out of control- I had to accept that managing the illness was the issue, not the illness itself.

When people see that you can do that they stop judging and being anxious, and see that in part the illness gives you your own unique insight and qualities.

It takes time but I am getting to a place where I am not at all worried who finds out about my bipolar, I don't tell everyone but if it comes out in conversation I'll talk about it and I think it's an important role in recovery to share your experiences and educate others who might otherwise buy into the myths and stereotypes.

he is so hurt

It's the central feature of Nism. Ns are always hurt by something. Ns behave that way because everything hurts them, they have an inability to connect to others and the fear of isolation and abandonment and unacceptability leads them to manipulate to keep people attached.

It doesn't sound like you have a tremendous amount spare to give to him right now- you need to concentrate on your own recovery and wellbeing?

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Hopalong]

Thanks for this, Write. It's easy to be confused by.

Ns are always hurt by something. Ns behave that way because everything hurts them, they have an inability to connect to others and the fear of isolation and abandonment and unacceptability leads them to manipulate to keep people attached

I think this has been a tremendous hook for me. I have felt so sorry for all the Ns I've been involved with. I can sense the vortex inside and I have seen their flashes of anguish and confusion. I was taught to love...and so...it has been hard to let go. They are human. They do feel pain. They just have no ability to connect the dots. To realize that if they could experience the moments of selflessness that keep us believing that connecting to other humans has a purpose beyond gratification, their pain would lessen.

It really is terribly sad. I think the realization that one has to leave them in their sadness is one of the hardest parts about being an empathic person around Ns.

It's exactly like seeing a mistreated dog of a breed that can manifest unpredictable aggression. They are too dangerous to bring home or to live with. Yet I love all dogs. And sometimes they wag their tails and look so mournful and lonely.

I think it must be infinitely lonely to be a full-tilt narcissist.

But I will never accept it as my duty to heal an N, in the depths of their loneliness. I will make gestures of kindness and compassion, but because I choose to expect it of myself in the degree in which I can handle it without destroying myself. It will not be according to their wishes, schedule, demands, expectations, or dictates.

That is the only way I have learned to live with my mother, who will be 96 in a few days. I have a friendly courteous detachment as I do various duties for her. Sometimes we share little jokes. We are peaceable. But only great age and the burdens of her aging body forcing her dependency have made that possible. I no longer forget that if she were still in her powerful prime, she would be exacting a price that is too high for me.

As it is, I'm worn out, with a permanent spinal injury (well, that's making it sound worse than it is...but it's chronic pain and fragility from slipped disks) that leaves me permanently limited from things I used to love doing. And the years of stress aged me.

I am now my first priority, except for my child, and it feels right. Morally right, even. That's a liberation I never thought I'd find. Much less in the same house with her.

Hops

[sea storm]

Thank you Hopalong and Write. Bless you for your insites and empathy. I did not mean to imply that BiPolar is a bad word. My N Partner would scream at me "You are Bi Polar, you  are sick, mentally ill" as if he were calling me the worst thing he could. When I think about this with some time and distance so what if I was? Get me help, read about it, join a chat line, get educated. For some reason I found these accusations that I was insane really hurtful. I have a sister who has had several psychotic episodes and I have helped her through them. They always ended and she could come back to her wonderful self.  I am sure yelling at the top of my lungs " You are PSYCHOTIC!" would not have helped.
I did get very angry as I realized that he was cheating and not paying into the expenses for our house or his airplane and sailboat. When I would confront him, he would say that I was having an episode. So you see it was gaslighting and I felt the foundation of my personality eroding.
At the same time I became really depressed and lost interest in everything. The constant demeaning and cheap shots were insidious and relentless. I think not having other people around to see what was going on didn't help. My friends coudln't stand to see us together. For some reason I could not see that he was flirting with my friends and making them uncomfortable.
I wonder about my blind spot ie that I let him take over the finances, that I let him bully me into paying all his bills and support him for years. I can still slip back into denial and miss his brillliantly funny and smart self, his amazing charm and charisma. Whoops.... Whoa there Nellie, there I go again. I see-saw back and forth and psychologically muzzle myself so that I wont throw myself at him It is some kind of death wish because I think the price I would pay would be total capitulation. There is a quality of obsession about my relationship and my friends tell me that I was like someone in a cult. I think they are right. If you have been there you know what I mean. I am not stupid or passive but I got to be more and more under his power until I felt like I had to jump off a bridge( metaphor) and get out even if it felt like the scariest thing in the world. He was humiliating me with other women and no longer even pretended to pay toward his share. This is my confession Not pretty, but there it is.
Today a friend got really angry with me for crying about the loss of this relationship. She said he has been a jerk to you for years and here you are crying. Well, I still loved his good side. Thank god I am seeing that his good side was a False Self that came out in order to keep his supply going. I feel for the others out there who dont understand what is happening and feel 100% responsible for the treatment they are getting. Was I a helpless victim or a willing victim.? I don't want to face that. I don't want the label. I am trying to crawl away as fast as I can.
I still feel really scared of the future and havent reinvented myself yet. I feel abandoned and betrayed.

[Hopalong]

I think the price I would pay would be total capitulation. There is a quality of obsession about my relationship and my friends tell me that I was like someone in a cult. I think they are right

Sea, I think they are right too. And you are right that they are right. That obsession is a classic and common pattern for people who are wired to be drawn toward abusive narcissists. Don't stop there...the wiring is not your fault, and your clear thinking now is your liberation.

Thank god I am seeing that his good side was a False Self that came out in order to keep his supply going.

You ARE seeing, Sea.

Please, stop apologizing for being duped, slowly hypnotized, and having lost yourself in it for a while. Someone who can see as clearly as you are now, what the real story is, is going to heal. You're going to be whole, free, and unintimidated.

You don't need to apologize. You don't need to be ashamed.

The only guilt you're feeling that matters is the guilt from abandoning yourself but you've STOPPED. (And you were programmed to do that in the first place so you don't need to feel guilty about that either.)

I think you are very intelligent and clear, despite all the pain you're in. And your grief for the good stuff, as you perceived it before your awakening, is okay too. You won't let it confuse you, but that gf isn't equipped to understand. Many women have grieved for jerks before they become repellent to them.

Breaaaaaathe. Cry. It's healing.

But let the shame go!
(It's not yours. It's his.)

((((((Seastorm)))))), you're not alone any more.
I'm sorry it was so awful. But that doesn't mean you're awful.

You're going to be fine. You ARE going to heal.

Hops

[Dazed1]

Dear Sea Storm,

I'm very sorry for all the pain you're feeling.

Just want to let you know that you are not alone.  I share many of your feelings and think you and I are in a similar place on this road (or maze) to discovering narcissism, codependency, what it all means and how we're affected by it. 

I hope I'm not being narcissistic in making that assumption, but I too feel duped, wonder about my blind spot (how could I have been so stupid not to see?, why did I let him/her bully me? etc), trying to figure out which was the False/True Self,  see-sawing back and forth, feeling really confused, feeing overwhelmed by the confusion and just wanting to make some sense out of it all. 

I agree with Hops, particularly that it's not our duty to heal the N.

Wishing you stength, peace of mind and clarity.
dazed

[Dazed1]

Sea Storm,

I also agree with Write that Ns always feel hurt. 

This fact is what gave me great insight into my codependency because now, I realize that I was trying to save my N mother from feeling her pain.  I did not want my mother to feel her pain.

I feel so disgusted with myself about my codependency, but I'm working on not feeling disgusted with myself.

Wow, feel like I'm making this all about me and not you, Sea Storm.  My intention is to show that in the early stages of discovering Nism, it's a slow connect the dots and that the wonderful people on this Board have helped me IMMENSELY and I feel they can help you, Sea Storm, too.

I as so grateful for the amazing and caring people on this Board.  Thank you all.

dazed

[moonlight52]

Dear Sea ,

WELCOME to you .
Also there is so much support here .
I AM SO SORRY YOU ARE HURTING.

Hugs,
MOONLIGHT

Dear Dazed ,

I have read your posts and want to thank you...............Also a BIG HELLO.
 
HUGS
MOONLIGHT