Author Topic: New to this, just introducing myself...  (Read 2425 times)

jayelle

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New to this, just introducing myself...
« on: December 27, 2006, 06:27:29 PM »
I'm new here, and have only taken the time to read a few of the posts so far. I didn't want to continue without introducing myself. My mother is the N in my life. Even as a very young child (1st & 2nd grade) I wondered what was wrong with me - I would walk to school (even in the rain and severe weather) and see the other kids being dropped off by their moms. I wasn't jealous that they got a ride - I was jealous that they got a hug when they were dropped off.  Hugs were not done at my house. It was not until years later that I realized my mom was still in her robe when I left for school and there was no way she could drive up to the school without her hair done. But it was the hugs I coveted. You know what I thought - I wasn't good enough for a hug. And that is how I grew up, trying to be good enough for a hug, for some recognition. In high school I "tried out" for everything - and made it. Pom pon, select choir, jazz band, newspaper editor, class officer, Junior Miss pageant - whatever I could do, I tried, I made it or won it, and kept waiting for my mom to show up, smiling at me, clapping for me, the way I saw the other mothers acting. It never happened so I kept wondering, what is so wrong with me that I don't get treated the way the other kids do. There were crying fits with my mom - in which she told me everything that was wrong with me (in a very steely way), how I needed to be more like "so and so,"  so I tried to "fix me" and she still stayed away. As I got older she couldn't come up with so many things that were wrong with me. The girls she compared me to - the ones whose mothers were in the audience applauding - they were getting in trouble, pregnancies, drunk driving, suspended from activities due to failing grades (yes, I was honor roll, too). So she began to tell me how her mother never came to her basketball games and she didn't care about it, so I was whining. It's a long story and it sounds like many of you have lived it already. All I can say is I spent my life (I'm now 44) believeing I wasn't good enough and didn't deserve love or recognition of who I was. A failed marriage and the biggest mistake of my life - thinking that whatever was wrong with me and my mother and her mother had to be stopped - that I must never have children so the bad genes would come to an end and no child would have to feel as I did.  I had realized was wrong with my mother - not just with me - and about 1-1/2 years ago a therapist said "your mother is a destructive narcissist" and began talking about needing to re-parent myself. She suggested books, gave me articles, gave me assignments. I still thought something was terribly wrong with me, even though I understood something was also wrong with my mother. That's when Charlie happened. My brother, who is 16 months younger than me, and his wife waited too long to try to conceive. They sought a child through adoption. A birth mother chose them; she was pregnant, and it was a boy. For the first time ever, my brother and I began to talk about how we were raised. The success each of us achieved in spite of the lack of encouragement or support of any kind. My brother talked about how I must help him to not let his childhood write the script for his son's childhood. At least now I know I wasn't alone in this abuse, but I was always so wrapped up in thinking something was wrong with me that I truly didn't notice what was happening to my brother. If anything, I was jealous becuase he had my dad, who thought a daughter was a bad joke, but a son was a miracle. (another topic all together). Anyway, my sister in law had some trouble adjusting to the newborn - they had only 2 weeks' notice he was coming. My mother and I alternated many weeks helping with the baby. My mother would return from a stay and talk about how lucky the baby was that she was there, that her daughter in law was a terrible mother and without his grandma that baby would have frozen/starved/failed to thrive (and so on). During my stays all I could thing was how lovely and perfect he is; how lucky I AM that I have been given an opportunity to care for a newborn, how lucky we are that a 17-year-old gave him to my brother and sister in law. I would hold him for hours during a nap and think about how fortunate I was to be right where I was. It never crossed my mind that the baby was lucky. It never crossed my mind that he would deserve anything less than my total devotion and attention. And I realized that I would not have treated a child the way I was treated. I could have mothered a child and although I might have made mistakes, I would not have treated him or her the way my mother treated me. Charlie is 10 months old now and is delightful in every way. My mother is having a hard time keeping herself in the limelight, Charlie has stolen all her thunder.
I am here because I still need to heal. I have a long way to go. I don't want to completely shut myself off from communicating with my mother, at least not while my father is still alive. I need help to build a wall. I feel the need to confront her about many things, though the therapist (whom I can no longer afford) assured me that a confrontation would not bring any good result. In a conversation several months ago my mother did admit to neglecting me, the therapist said this is more than most adult children ever get from Nparents, and I need to continue trying to re-parent myself. I fully intend to leave her on her own after my father dies. In the last few years he has begun to realize her true nature. He doesn't have a word for it - that she is a destructive narcissist, but he does say that she only does things to glorify herself and has no other motive. He also has said that she is not sentimental and doesn't "like" to empathize with people.  He assures me she loves me, and says I am ridiculous for thinking she does not. When I offer him specific examples of why I do not believe she loves me he acknowledges the events but doesn't interpret them as lack of love, just a lack of understanding or appreciation.  My brother believes she cares for us very deeply, but loves herself and her money far more than she cares for us. Sorry for the lengthy introduction. I hope to get to know you all better, I hope to find some help, and if there is anything I have to offer, I will do my best to share. Here's to a NEW YEAR!

CB123

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Re: New to this, just introducing myself...
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2006, 07:05:14 PM »
edit
« Last Edit: January 14, 2007, 02:54:21 PM by CB123 »
When they are older and telling their own children about their grandmother, they will be able to say that she stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way -- and it surely has not -- she adjusted her sails.  Elizabeth Edwards 2010

reallyME

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Re: New to this, just introducing myself...
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2006, 07:50:47 PM »
Jayelle,

Most of the people on this board (I've been here almost a year) could tell you that I am very much a "tell it like it is" sort of person.  I never mean to hurt anyone I comment to, so please do not take my comments as anything more than my sharing my view with you and others.

That having been said, I need to express that my skin was crawling when I read the following:

Quote
jayelle: My mother and I alternated many weeks helping with the baby.


Absolutely nothing against you or your brother, etc, but WHY ON GOD'S GREEN PLANET IS THAT WOMAN EVEN ALLOWED NEAR THAT BABY?  As I've said in earlier posts, I will never understand how people can see the N for what he/she is, and then let them help raise their children or grandchildren or have any input ANYWHERE into their lives!  I just don't get it.

 Keep the lady OUT OF YOUR LIFE and ESPECIALLY away from an innocent baby who can easily be influenced by N'ism.

part of N'ism seems to be them claiming your children as soon as possible.  I've observed Jodi trying to do this with my teenage daughter, and then my former friend's teenage daughter, as well as some other people's...she seemed to have this thing for wanting to shape teen girls into HER, by dressing them alike and also having them stay "one step ahead" of whatever her majesty wanted or needed, all, of course without her having to ask or tell them.  THey PREY on people's children at all ages...they are easily shapeable and will do their bidding.

Secondly:

Quote
jayelle:
In a conversation several months ago my mother did admit to neglecting me, the therapist said this is more than most adult children ever get from Nparents,

Actually in my experience, this is not really all that uncommon.  Jodi had no problem admitting to treating me horribly, but she also continued to do so, by rubbing things in my face about her new conquests, by leading me to believe we were going to be able to still have a relationship and alternately showing me that it was never gonna happen, by repeatedly just disappearing and spending all her time with the new person.  Oh yes she admitted to neglecting me and mistreating me, but only because it caused her to have to feel a little bit of something N"s are almost allergic to....GUILT!  Once she admitted that she was a creep, I think she and her husband felt that feeling of "well, you did all you could so you're off the hook and owe her NOTHING MORE!"  Seems to be their thing.

~RM

Hopalong

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Re: New to this, just introducing myself...
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2006, 10:53:54 PM »
Welcome, Jayelle...glad you're here.

I think your therapist has told you a great truth:
Quote
several months ago my mother did admit to neglecting me, the therapist said this is more than most adult children ever get from Nparents, and I need to continue trying to re-parent myself.

I think your father can never validate what you experienced because if he does, that means his marriage was a waste, a mistake. It would be too painful for him, and wreck his identity.

I'm so sorry your mother doesn't know how to love. I hope you'll keep posting here and also try to create positive supportive relationships with women in your life...it makes a huge difference when you haven't gotten the mother-love you needed. It helped me tremendously anyway.

Hi RM:
That was so painful to read, because I know it's true.
I wish I had never let my mother get her mitts on my daughter. But I didn't know about Nism until my child was grown.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

reallyME

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Re: New to this, just introducing myself...
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2006, 11:16:01 PM »
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HOPS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I am so sorry for your situation with your daughter.  I'm praying that things heal and that she has a chance still at a wonderful life, and also that  you do .  It's not your fault...if it hadn't been for Jodi, I would never have known about personality disorders in general but especially in the last place on earth I'd ever expect them...ministry homes.

Hopalong

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Re: New to this, just introducing myself...
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2006, 12:33:28 AM »
Thanks, RM...
My D and I are getting along, but I worry a lot sometimes about her N-ishness. She's not "an N", I don't think...but there are some traits that worry me.

And I want her to be happy.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

axa

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Re: New to this, just introducing myself...
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2006, 05:21:36 AM »
Jayelle,

Welcome here.  A big part of the learning, I think, in dealing with Ns is that you will NEVER get what you want from them.  Any energy you put into them is just a waste of time.  People see what they want to see but when you know something in your heart it is very difficult to unknow it.

Looking forward to reading your posts.


Axa

sea storm

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Re: New to this, just introducing myself...
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2006, 03:22:33 PM »
You are so welcome here.
I am glad to hear your story and relieved and hopeful about your recovery from parenting by a Narcissistic mother.
You can get support for having boundaries with her or anyone else who does not respect and care for you. For instance, one does not have to accept feedback unless it is invited. Especially, for someone who tears a strip of you.
The baby sounds wonderful and very healing for you. How lovely that you are responding to Charlie's needs from the very best part of yourself and that this part is a surprise.  This baby is really going to thrive on your love.
As for toxic grandma. Little kids are pretty smart if they have continually had their intuition and feelings validated. Charlie will know that Grandma is probably short a few bricks. Pitting family members against each other is one of the tactics that Narcissistic grandma's can use to undermine your relationship with your nephew and gossip.
You are so lucky to have knowledge and experience on your side so that your mother can't do much harm anymore. Hopefully.
Anyway, this place has helped me to get back on my feet because of the truly wonderful and kind help I have received. And I felt welcomed. So I pass this on to you with all my heart.

(((WELCOME))))))

Sea storm

moonlight52

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Re: New to this, just introducing myself...
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2006, 04:48:49 PM »
Hey Janelle welcome,

It is so good you have a wonderful professional to help you and is always there for YOU.
DITTO TO WHAT Axa has said here.

Janelle,
Welcome here.  A big part of the learning, I think, in dealing with NS is that you will NEVER get what you want from them.  Any energy you put into them is just a waste of time.  People see what they want to see but when you know something in your heart it is very difficult to UN know it.
Ax

moonlight

P.S. It is not good for one's children or spouse to have seen a life long pattern of being demeaned by one's parent.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2006, 07:28:45 PM by moonlight »

mudpuppy

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Re: New to this, just introducing myself...
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2006, 08:37:44 PM »
Quote
He assures me she loves me, and says I am ridiculous for thinking she does not.
Quote
My brother believes she cares for us very deeply, but loves herself and her money far more than she cares for us.

I'm afraid one sad aspect of Ns is that we think that when we have finally figured out what they are and what motivates them that it should be obvious to the rest of the world now too. But it doesn't work that way. You will have to reconcile yourself to the fact that though she is an open book to you, others will never comprehend that there are people as unfeeling and self absorbed as Narcissists, either because they can't understand or they are afraid to.

I have been compelled to choose the no contact route myself. But I understand those who don't and I don't think it is a bad thing if you can handle the stress and there are positives involved like seeing your father.
I do not believe Narcissism is a contagion born on the wind. If you're little nephew has a loving mother and father who pour out love on him I think he will be well innoculated from whatever spores your mother is releasing in his presence.

Confrontations with an N, like forgiveness, are only useful to the deliverer. She is unchangable granite and will use any confrontation to paint you as a mean, unreasonable nut. It might help you to get some toxins out of your system but it probably will not provoke one iota of genuine decency on her part. On the contrary it is almost guaranteed to produce a flood of fresh venom. In my opinion its usually better to just walk away from a froth mouthed dog than to give it a good swift kick.

You're only 44. That's still a pretty spring-like chicken. You have time to do a great many things that you may think are too late. Just don't let regrets about the past and lost opportunities prevent you from living in the present and hoping for the future. Now that you know there is nothing wrong with you, but something seriously wrong with her maybe you can chart a different course of your making rather than being guided by her malignant influence.

mud

moonlight52

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Re: New to this, just introducing myself...
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2006, 09:31:38 PM »


The fact is most all others will see the n as a great person and if a N is confronted it is always a no win situation .
The only way to have any life of your own is no contact at least that is what works for me.


Any contact is just another opportunity for them to use or hurt you.That is just my opinion .
There are all degree's of Nism.I hope your situation is easier to handle than mine .

Stormchild

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Re: New to this, just introducing myself...
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2006, 09:49:31 AM »
Hi bean

I understand Dr. Forward's advice - but it can be dangerous. If the N you confront is a sociopath, they will do everything in their power to destroy you, once they fully understand that you are ON TO THEM and will never be fooled by them again.

I don't think Dr. Forward had considered how many toxic parents are sociopathic when she wrote the book. Also, I think she focused on the fact that for many people, denial is so strong and the lure of the 'good family myth' is so overwhelming that it takes a major jolt to cure them. And standing up and confronting your abuser face to face is about the most major jolt possible, especially when they react as an abuser almost always will - with fury, denial, and more abuse. Pretty hard to deny THAT to yourself when it's happened right in front of your psychiatrist!

[It also transfers the client's loyalty away from the abusive parent, and on to the parent substitute, assuming the therapist plays a supportive and protective role in the confrontation, and nurtures the client afterwards. That transfer of loyalty is necessary for reparenting and healing, but it's dangerous if the therapist is themselves Nish and abusive.]

There is a poster who was here a year ago, maybe, who confronted his N father, because his therapist pushed him into it. Know what happened? Nfather swelled up like a toad and became vicious, and the coward of a therapist threw her client to the wolves and sided with the N to protect her own sorry butt. Look it up... it's on here somewhere.

That being said, I think a safe [probably private] funeral for lost causes can be a very good idea... 
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

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Stormchild

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Re: New to this, just introducing myself...
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2006, 10:39:30 AM »
It's hard for a layperson to tell, but honestly, it's not impossible. After all, somebody figured it out to begin with.

This guy

http://www.hare.org/

is pretty much "It" in terms of understanding and explaining sociopaths.

Here's an article from Psychology Today - not only about the Hannibal Lecter types in fiction, but about the real ones in the next cubicle or in MySpace...

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-19940101-000027.html

I've read Without Conscience and Snakes in Suits and I can recommend them both.

And believe it or not, really good crime fiction writers - like Sue Grafton in S is for Silence - have an absolute gift for teaching forensic psychology, if you just read them with that outlook. They show how these people think and act. True crime books don't get 'inside their heads' the same way, a lot of the time. And that's what you need: a tour of their heads. [And then a shower afterwards, but that's OK.]

The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

http://galewarnings.blogspot.com

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reallyME

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Re: New to this, just introducing myself...
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2006, 10:52:21 AM »
Without Conscience is one I have read...it's a very enlightening book.

Snakes in Suits sounds like a good one too, but I haven't read it yet.