Calm after the storm, taking small steps

[sea storm]

I thought I would share some information about  pathological liars with you all. I read a study that connects swindling and making false accusations with pathological lying. The three behaviours are so closely associated that they are lumped together as one in anti soiclal behaviour disorder. The link that explores this is under pathological lying, swindling. 
There are further connections with early sexual abuse, autoeroticism and implusive behaviour leading to multiple affairs, lack of empathy.  So the same animal ie narcissist is seen in a slightly different light but it ammounts to pretty much the same experience for the victim.

I spend a lot of time looking up information about narcissists and i try to understand the off hand manner in which he sadistically discarded and swindled me. It is making sense intellectually. This has helped a lot.
I had a session with my therapist today and she said that when I feel that I need to phone my ex for validation I should remember that I won't get it there and that at those times I need to take care of my inner child who is about three years old. What is she missing and what does she need to hear from me.?
I thought that was helpful. She also said to get warm mild at those times and cuddle under a blanket. It could signal trying to do too much and be too adult under the circumstances.
Today was a better day and I thank god for days of comparative peace.
I signed up to take a course to be a hospice volunteer. The training is very good and it will be a chance to meet women in my community.
I am going to start going to the gym too. Little steps. Someday I will have walked very far from where I am today. It will take time.

Thank you dear friends for all your love and support.

Sea Storm

[axa]

CB & Storm,

I think if I lie to someone I am aware of twisting reality and there will be consequences to me and the other person.... good deterrant for me.  With the N everything is immediate.  As if "I dont like the reality so I will change it to suit me".  There is no thought of the consequences, no empathy.  Getting caught out does not seem to matter at all.  It is as if there is no shame.  Being ashamed of behaviour does not fit into their scheme of things.

Why would he want your grandmother's inheritence. well he has a right to everything, hasn't he, why should he not have it.  I think they are terrified CB.  I took on XNs fears also though he insisted that he had not fear.  They spend their time projecting the negative onto another.  I am aware of not being fearful right now, he went and so did the fear.  I am finding some faith in myself not that I am not being pulled every which way.

What your therapist said makes sense to me storm.  Looking to the angry adult for love and validation. All that can come from him is more abuse.  Reparenting yourself is the answer but it if very difficult for those of us who had so little parenting to do this.  It is like learning to write with your non dominant hand, it just does not fit.

Well done with all the little steps, though they do not seem so little to me.  The work at the hospice sounds interesting but it strikes me that you are giving outside yourself again.  I do believe that in giving we can find love and feel good but dont forget YOU>


xxx Axa

[axa]

Sounds scary but you are getting stronger.  I hear this.  I think if we can KNOW that they live in a parrell universe where truth and respect do not exist, always expect the worst, sometimes it is not even possible for us to imagine the worse but this is their world.  Maybe the secret is to stay away from their world as much as possible.  I know the NO CONTACT rule for me is making things easier in that my energy is not sucked dry by trying to figure out what he REALLy is saying.  The truth is they say whatever they want and it has no bearing on previous conversations.  Everything is ungrounded, there is no connections.

Sometimes when XN would say some crazy stuff I would try and look at it as him speaking in a language that I did not understand so there was no point in replying.  Needless to say he took my lack of response as agreement.  But there was nothing I could do about that.

Right now I am feeling angry, I feel a lot of it these days, need to work that out somehow.

Axa

[Hopalong]

Well put, Axa! What a fine perception of one of the symptoms of Nism (they truly are sick, but it's chronic and untreatable--important to remember):

The truth is they say whatever they want and it has no bearing on previous conversations.  Everything is ungrounded, there is no connections.

Sea, bravo. Your openness to healing steps is just fantastic.

CB, I hope your lawyer resembles a ravenous pit bull. Are you mistakenly assuming that he has all the financial power???????? You are just as smart and capable, and likely moreso. Narcissists make mistakes when they are in a fugue of entitlement. He may be smart and canny, but you are smart and sane...so when you explain your situation to your lawyer, there will be no crazymaking gaps.

You DO have a good lawyer, yes? This would be worth spending some farm money on, maybe?

Hops

[Gaining Strength]

 It is almost like he projected his worst fears on to me, and I accepted them as my own.  Since he has been gone, I seem to have regained my own sense that I can manage whatever financial reverses I have to, because I can work through to a solution. 

CB123 - these words are great help to me.  This year I must face my own financial disaster.  My father prjected his fears onto me but he inherited vast sums which he chose not to pass on.  My husband died with debt and my parents have not helped me at all financially though they are more than able.  This year I am strong enough to begin to tackle the mounting debts and back taxes and get back to work.  That's an awful lot to take on but thank heavens I am strong enough.  I was a worm, almost hermit when I came here in August and now in a few short months I am a different person.  Your words and the exchange between you and sea storm has helped me too.  I am so very thankful. - Gaining Strength

[seastorm]

Thank you all for your replies. It seems that each reply has an important piece of the puzzle.
It is sooooo important to get a lawyer that you feel comfortable with. I interviewed three lawyers before settling on the latest one. He is a pit bull but nice to me. He disarms my exN at every turn. He is the one negotiating etc. It is important to really explain everything to the lawyer and stay in touch. They have seen it all so many times and they are paid to do the tough work.
I agree that Ns have a funny way of sabotaging themselves by one minute being amazingly analytical and next minute losing the page and blowing their strategy. Financially, my N wanted total control of the money but he made really dumb decisions based on poor judgement. So i am sure you can do better than your ex. They are often financially screwed up. The more I read about the N the more chaotic and disorganized I see that their personalities are. It is a pity that any of us take it personally. They are so impulsive and such junkies for attention that they are bound to be disloyal in many ways. It is a concept that is useless to them.
I think my N really had his eye on money at all times and how to get it and manage it and make sure he had the upper hand. Just the natural state for a human predator. Always remember that. You are of no intrinsic value. Your feelings do not matter. So in a divorce with settlement issues it is like dealing with the BORG. Cold, calculating, merciless. Get LAWYER Fast.
 I got an email today from my exN. He wants to hurry up the settlement.  He was oh so sweet and said he was hurting but he would be available to sign papers. Oh those mixed messages that used to turn my brain into a preztle.  I love you, you useless baggage, I need you forever, I am going away for two weeks, you are my love, I think I will sleep in the spare bedroom.  What a friggin blender ride.
As for the lies. They are off-handed and part of a disorganized and distroyed personality. You will never hear the truth.
This pattern of lies began very very early on when they did not get their needs met at young children. No positive mirroring so they learned to manipulate instead and relate.
I asked a friend for help in my minimal dealing with ex and he said remember that behaviour is the only thing you can go by because his words mean less than nothing. They are just bullshit meant to confuse and destabilize you.
Good grief. If anyone read this they would think this was some melodramatic exageration. But this is life with a Narcissist.
I pray that we all have the strength to get free of them so that we can begin to heal, get strong and move on.
I sense incredible beauty and value in the women here. For some special and good reason we have found each other to lend a hand through this nightmare.
Standing by with lots of love

Seastorm

[seastorm]

Axa..........
"getting caught out and there is no shame"........
I can see his face so clearly. The vacant face that registers a blank when they are caught dead to rights in a lie. No remorse, nothing registers. Isn't that frightening?
That really bothers me.  Stealing and lying and no remorse ....nothing.
In a way that is the essence of the matter and we just get to see into the void that is really at their epicentre.
I think this is evil.  Scott Peck thinks so too. No willingness to look inward and acknowledge that they have wronged you.
We need support and love after facing this void in someone we trusted deeply. It is shattering.

I am glad you remind me so that I don't forget and get caught up in his web or his orbit.

Seastorm

[seastorm]

CB123
Yes that is very true.... If he  believed what you tell him then he could not stand it.  Hence, the projections that are meant to destroy you. They often attack very good people and especially where they are the most laudable. These projections are pretty paranoid. In my case he said that I was bipolar, violent, disorganized, incapable of handling money and would destroy his antiques. Also there was a bunch of delusional paranoia about guns. He thought I was going to use one to kill him or myself. If I had known what was going on I would have gone ballistic. I think this was some twisted logic of his.He knew he was really screwing me so he accused me of being homocidal. Whaaaaaattttt?  I get jittery when i think of the chaos and constant insanity. I am so lonely that it is pretty bleak but at least I don't have that.

Sea Storm

[axa]

Seastorm,

I read Scott Peck also and it scared the life out of me because I was reading about XN.  I talked to therapist today about XNs hatred and she pondered the question was it hatred or power.  I think the latter.  To hate presupposes that you can love.  As we know Ns cannot love so I think it is a power thing.  The NO Contact thing makes a lot of sense to me now because if I have no contact then he has no power.  I am useless THANK GOD AND THE UNIVERSE.

I think if you can hold that every word from their mouths is some form of manipulation or lie then you are on the right track. There is no truth with them.

CB.  I hear that you are lonely.  Can I ask what do you think you are lonely for?  It might be interesting to explore this.  Keep posting.  In the beginning when I felt that lonliness I just got on line and posted it made me feel connected and not lonely.  I am alone now but not lonely.

xxxx and hugs,

axa

[CB123]

edit

[axa]

Hi CB

Thinking about your desire for some space.  Can you give yourself any, early morning........ 10 mins during the day really acknowledging that it is YOUR Space.  I think about the stress you are under and admire you so much for what you are doing.  I am glad that you can enjoy the contact in your town.  I know how important that can be.  Lived abroad for a while and being acknowledged by the local people on the street was a very comforting form of contact for me.

Sounds like you are doing good stuff building up new networks in the town you will be moving to.  I have been unsettled for the past few years and now I am here and staying for the foreseeable future, that does ground me so I understand what you are saying.  You seem to be doing such good work.

I get the bit about the board here.  I know that others who have not experienced life with an N cannot imagine what it is like.  It is good to be heard here.  Always glad to see you have been here.

axa

[mudpuppy]

Nice thread guys, or gals, I guess I should say.

My own take is that their lies and schemes are not just offhanded or seat of the pants type of things. I think they plan and plan and then when they have it all worked out they take a walk around it looking at it from all angles then sit down and do a little more planning.
The reason it looks disorganized and seat-of-the-pants is because it is a total nutter who is doing the planning. As soon as their loony plans collide with the real world, as they inevitably do, the whole things starts to fall around their ears and they sit there trying to hold up the ten thousand bricks they so carefully laid. And when that fails they then point the finger at the convenient scapegoat they always have positioned for just such an event and try to run away to their next train wreck in the making.

I have found the greatest validation in kicking the arse of my tormentor in court. It's tough to fight with them in the alleys and gutters they inhabit, but shine a little light on them and in my experience they don't fair so well where rumor, innuendo and bald faced lies don't suffice.

And, straying about as far from my field of expertise as possible , I sometimes wonder, given the overlap of characteristics, if it wouldn't be better to just classify NPD, BPD, ASPD etc under one umbrella term such as Butthead Personality Disorder or Really Slimy and Creepy PD, and then have a bowl full of traits that we could pin to our particular antagonist. It would be especially helpful if we could pin them there permanently so that the next sucker they happened upon would at least have had fair warning.

mud

[seastorm]

Holy Smoke Mudpuppy,

That was incredibly brilliant and funny and inspiring. Can it be that we may be talking about the identical person?  I noticed how looney my N sounds when dealing with my lawyer.
I can't tell you what an insightful picture you painted.
I am back to dealing with N again the last few days and I can hardly get out of bed. He sends out deadly darts just where it hurts most. He threatens me and begins to loom large again.
I was doing pretty well until my disability providers held up payments for two months as they made me get further and further evidence of my depression. So I cant pay the lawyer or remortgage.  These things take a lot of time.

Lots of love,
Seastorm

[mudpuppy]

seastorm,

Can it be that we may be talking about the identical person?

In a lot of ways, yes. There are a few major pathologies they all share which are manifested in a delightfully and remarkably similar pattern, apparently worldwide.

He threatens me and begins to loom large again.

He's not large; he's scared and he's puny. When they're threatening is when they are weak and losing control. That's one of their universal traits; raising the ante and making escalating threats to those they are in conflict with in order to win by default. Of course if they have a lot more money or we are unwilling to tolerate the character assassination they often do win by default. If you're in that situation it is usually best to be as clever as you can with the resources you have and get out quick and start over. But if one of their victims can afford it and gets to the point of not giving a tinkers damn what is said about him or her as long as the truth is exposed then the N is in for a very unpleasant time, because the light kills them.

mud

[isittoolate]

Hi everyone

I would like to add my admiration for mudpuppy’s posts......amusing but seriously true.

They  (the N, the P) are all the same, and we ‘owe it’ to each other to support the perhaps different feelings of the survivor. Some fold up and others fight to regain themselves. Some live for revenge, but if one waits long enough, one will see the revenge meted out in the N s backfiring on himself. (My way)

Here, seastorm is the survivor and will continue to be, and I, as a survivor of 4 years with a P am a survivor.

I can relate to voicelessness when being under the control of a P, and I recall the feeling that I had lived that life before…….  my father. He had to have been an N.

I say there ought to be a class Narcissism 101 for people on the verge of the dating years and Lesson 1 would be red flags!

Izzy