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monster or good daughter?

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Wildflower:
I made my first posting last night in order to find help for my mom, but now I’m in over my head again, and I need help myself.

My mother fights me when I try to help her.  She fights everyone.  I understand why.  She had a terribly abusive N mother who taught her that if someone gets involved in her life, there must be a trick, or there’s something they want to change about her, something not good enough about her, some way she’s failed.  She still doesn’t understand what it means to have people truly care about her – no strings attached.  

Because my childhood was so confusing, I don’t always trust my memories of what happened, but I have learned that the way people behave now is a pretty good indication of how they behaved back then, and if she’s resistant to me now, my memories of her resistance when I was little make more sense.  She has always been terrified that someone would interfere with her life – myself included.  But a child has to interfere with their parents’ lives in order to be fed and read to and played with and consoled, right?  So often when I wasn’t mothering her or listening to stories about my grandmother, I was a burden, or worse, a clone of my N father or N grandmother.  And in her mind, the reason my N father and N grandmother got that way was because they were spoiled, never disciplined, allowed to have tantrums.  When I was 8 and going through a really bad time after the loss of a man I consider to be my true (as in practicing) father, she scolded me and insisted that I would NOT be like my father.  So to make a long story kind of short, not only was I denied the ability to grieve over my loss, I was told that I was a monster to do so, and I was trained to keep my emotions under control at all costs.  Trained to resist what I was already pre-destined to be – because I shared the blood of Ns and I was a dead-ringer for my father.  I never had a chance.

But my mother needs help now.  She’s severely depressed and having trouble finding any value in her life.  When it comes to my N grandmother and N father, I’ve learned to harden myself to their suicide threats because I have little to no doubt that they are using these threats when they’ve tried everything else to get attention.  I’m not so sure my mother can be ignored though.  I became concerned that she might be suicidal after a kind of scary email from her at the end of this week in which she hinted at giving away all of her possessions.  I was finally able to get through to her tonight (she was screening her calls), but when I tried to talk to her about how she was doing, she immediately became defensive and started accusing me of thinking she’s a failure or interfering with her life.  I had to yell, “we love you and we care about you and that’s why we’re here,” to get her to stop and hear me.  How helpful can it possibly be to have someone yell at you when you’re upset?  And yet, it’s really the only way I’ve ever been able to get through to her over the years.  But now I feel like a horrible monster.  Am I just adding to her pain and making her even more depressed and miserable?  What if I said something wrong?  What if I’m just making it that much harder for the next person who tries to help her?  What if she's right and I’m really doing all the things my grandmother did to hurt her?

 :cry:  :cry:  :cry:

rosencrantz:
Hello Wildflower - I think I was posting to your other thread at the same time you posted a new one.  I think you may find some answers there in the Breaking the N Chain thread to the issues you raise here.  

I do understand where you're at Wildflower.  It's so very confusing all this N/ACON stuff.  We seem to end up all as 'bad' as each other.  

I certainly reached a crisis point where it seemed to me that she made me ill AND I made her ill.  That was part of the reason I stayed away so long.  I feared for MY sanity but when I first felt strong enough to handle her again, I feared that MY sanity would damage HERS.  There's more than a grain of truth in that but it doesn't mean giving up your own sanity.  It just means 'letting go'.  (Replace the word 'sanity' with a better one to relate it to you own experience!)

You understand her - let me validate your understanding of both her and the Ns in your life.  But you do also attach strings - you want her to be different.  I know you want her to be 'healthy' and 'better' and 'alive' and those are 'good' things.  But they are your priorities, not necessarily hers. If you think about it, she's right, after all, that you think she's a failure and that you want to interfere with her life!  You may have a different motive to the Ns in her life, but she can still only interpret it from that point of view.  

What would happen if you admitted the truth (sharp intake of breath).  "Yes, I do think you've failed in the sense that (....) and that makes me feel that I've failed YOU and that hurts so much and makes me feel so helpless and yet I think you want me to be strong and make things better for you. And I just don't know what to do to help any more but I think I should know what to do...what should I do to help you?" ?????

Practice becoming the child again!!!!!

Let me reiterate - you are not a bad person, you are not an N, and you are not a monster.  And when you were a child, you didn't get your appropriate needs met appropriately.  You've got more than enough on your plate to sort out that legacy - and it's partly that legacy that has you doing what you're trying to do for your mother.  

Can you ask her if you can help rather than deciding that she needs help and trying to work out the kind of help she needs???  In getting rid of stuff - you may have heard her correctly or maybe she was thinking in terms of a healthy de-clutter.  Either way, from her perspective, she was wrong, wrong wrong again!!! (The Four Agreements apply!)  :wink:

Teachers raise a child's self-esteem by picking only on what they've done well, no caveats, ifs or buts.  I once congratulated my mother on some small thing she did for herself and she was overwhelmed and so, so grateful.  It clearly meant a lot.  And it gave me a whole new perspective of what her AIM was in creating chaos and confusion.

You can both be right even tho one might be 'healthier' than the other.

But you gotta 'let go', dear.  You gotta 'hear' that the outside world is a threat to your mother.  She needs to take her own small steps in the way that she's most comfortable with.
R

Guest again:
Hi Wildflower,
No you're most definitely not a monster. Guilt can make our thinking fuzzy. When you yelled at your mother it's probably because your so taxed and emotionally drained by her, your father and so much of what your life has handed you. These people are not your responsibility to fix. We all want our family members to be okay, but sometimes we can't do anything about the state that they find themselves in. They were like this before you came along. Your mother needs professional help Wildflower. She really does, and that is the hard truth. You can't give her what she needs. She may not even want to get help, or she may be that far down that she doesn't care anymore. You blame your grandmother for this, and it's probably true, but you can't fix that either. They were enmeshed in their dance long before you were even thought of. You are now caught up in this unholy dance and I'm sure it's taking a terrible toll on you. You've said something about your mother always being needy I think. Well what about your needs, your life, your happiness and peace of mind. Do you know these are your first priorities. No-one else is going to make these a priority if you don't. Sounds selfish at first till you think about the big picture. What good are you to anybody else if you don't take care of yourself, first and foremost. Look at your mother as an example. That is how people end up when they don't stand up and decide to make a life for themselves, and go after all the good things that life has to offer, when the victim mentality takes control. Self-destruction stemming from guilt and self-pity, which stems from being abused is  deadly cycle. The greatest gift that you can give yourself and your family is to break free from the cycle of abuse that you are now being subjected to. You have somehow been given or been passed the mantle of family emotional physician. You're to try to be the restorer and repairer or die in the attempt. All these expectations have found their way onto your shoulders to sort out 3 or 4 generations of irresponsible abuse and neglect by these women and you have either consciously or sub-consciously accepted this role. Wildflower, it's not your job. It would be lovely if it were possible, but the only repair that will or can ever come from you will be to the next generation, your children, neices and nephews, not backwards to the past generations. You have to start here with you. From where you stand now and say, "No more." Learn from the past, but remove from yourself the responsibility of trying to change it or fix it. You can't. Your mother needs help, and you can't give her the help she would like, which is for you to do and take care of everything for the rest of her life. This could only happen if you are truly happy to sacrifice your own life for her. No loving mother would ever want this. Many people here talk about boundaries and the setting of boundaries. It must come down to this if we are going to break the cycle of abuse for our future generations. This may require you finding a good therapist for yourself too. And reading stories and participating here can help so much too. Set new standards for your life, aim high, seek life and respect. Expect, give and receive positive dignified treatment in our relationships and continue to learn and grow and make friends and trust. Our job is to create new environments for our families, our children particularly, where they grow and thrive and feel safe and secure. This is the greates gift you can give to those women who have failed you in this. Learn from them, don't become them, break the cycle and change history for your and your children's sake. You have my heartfelt best wishes and I wish you well.

Guest again

Wildflower:
Thank you guys so much for listening and helping me see straight.  I know I just started posting to this site and it’s a flood, so thanks for taking the time to wade through my muddled thoughts.


--- Quote ---"Yes, I do think you've failed in the sense that (....) and that makes me feel that I've failed YOU and that hurts so much and makes me feel so helpless and yet I think you want me to be strong and make things better for you. And I just don't know what to do to help any more but I think I should know what to do...what should I do to help you?"
--- End quote ---


That hit such a deep nerve, Rosencrantz, and in that one question, I think you’ve put in a nutshell all the issues my heart and brain are trying to reconcile when it comes to my mom.  Your comments (and your shared experience) really are very helpful.  [Just occurred to me while submitting this: I assumed that you were asking me to admit this to myself, but are you suggesting that it may be something I admit to her - and be a child with her?]

It’s been a rough year watching her decline, but I tell myself helplessly watching that decline is going to be the hardest part (for me, certainly not for her).  I have one other family member working through this with me and we’ve tried to let go by setting thresholds for ourselves – limits past which we can no longer watch her suffer.  He has his limits, and apparently mine was the thought of her disappearing completely and I wasn’t prepared for it – even after all that thinking.

So I’ve been slipping into old habits this weekend.  I’d probably feel better if I could contact a clinic near her and talk about options - if only for the future - but that’ll have to wait until they open up again tomorrow.  In my impatience and worried state, I made a big mistake calling her and trying to talk through this.  I wanted to hear her voice to be able to gauge where she was and whether immediate intervention would be necessary, but I need to learn that I’m simply not qualified to make that analysis, and that by opening up the doors to this subject with her, I constantly risk hurting both of us.

She did ask me for help in that email, but it was a kind of help I couldn’t give her.  She needs money that I don’t have to give, and even if I did, it seems to me that it would be like holding her hand and allowing her to stay crippled.  I know that she’s angry with me, though.  I know from the way she talks about my relative that she thinks we’re punishing her.

It may be that some day she’ll want the advice I have to offer, that she’ll want to know how I struggled through.  And then I can give her the help I have to offer.  But until then, I don’t have anything to give.  And now I just have to cross my fingers and hope she finds a way out of this.  And brace myself for dealing with what happens if she doesn’t.

And to Guest again, thanks for reinforcing the point that I need to get myself well first.  I think that’s partly why I’m struggling so much, as ironic as this may sound.   My life (outside of this issue) has gotten so much better over the past four or five years thanks to a good therapist.  It started with being able to go out in public without feeling like everyone was judging me and able to see how pathetic or horrible I was.  Now I can interact freely and positively with everyone I see on a regular basis in my neighborhood, and that world is constantly expanding.  That was a huge step, but a very hard one.  And over the past year, I’ve finally been having success with truly listening to my own wants and responding to them – and I’m discovering all kinds of wonderful things (not at all monsterly wants!) that I really truly enjoy.  So while my mother is sliding into darkness, I’m out in the world like a small, innocent child picking flowers and happy just to be singing as I skip down the street.  And as much as I know I have to keep skipping along, it’s breaking my heart right now and making me feel so guilty.

Again, thank you all for your support - and just being there writing your own stories.

Wildflower

surf14:
HI Wildflower;
   the above replies were voiced so well by others.  In regards to  your mother's depression:  sometimes depressed people resist help from others if they are feeling suicidal because they feel like taking their lives and not having to deal with the consequensces of how it will affect others; their pain is so intense they  may rationalize  that its OK to end their lives, that no one really cares.   Please, keep telling her how much she means to you and that you couldn't bear it if she were to take her life.  Follow this up by trying to get her to a clinic to talk with someone.  Often what seems impossible to deal with or fix now can be seen and handled in a different light  at another time when things are not so overwhelming.   If you feel she is genuinely in danger of harming herself but will not respond to your pleas to seek assistance you can have her court committed to a hospital for her own safety in order for her to receive treatment. (may have to call 911 and have the ambulance come and take her)  About your grandparents:  N's seldom commit suicide  (for obvious reasons) but of course they threaten it for attention.  Good luck and be well.

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