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monster or good daughter?

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rosencrantz:

--- Quote ---I assumed that you were asking me to admit this to myself, but are you suggesting that it may be something I admit to her - and be a child with her?]
--- End quote ---


Absolutely!  Be 'accurate' about what you feel, search to share what you feel, if you can, without blame if you can, rather than be 'strong' and 'in charge'.  You are the child; you are the daughter.  Let's get these things the right was round for once!!!

I reiterate, you are not responsible.  And I disagree with guest - it is not your responsibility to make decisions about committal or clinics or to invite interference from others.  Your mother is an independent woman and she has told you clearly that she does not want interference in her life.  If you accept that, you can tell her you accept it, let her know that you respect her decision but maybe you can share your fear as well.  Talk about what you fear - yes, say the word 'suicide', bring it out into the open.  Feel YOUR pain.  And let it be.  

She's making contact with you and I think she wants your warmth (maybe even your forgiveness???).  I realise there are practical aspects, but what is asking for money but asking to be loved!!  Give her your 'unconditional' love if you can.  Give her a hug if you can.  Tell her she's done the best she knows how, if you can find it in your heart.  I know that what I'd want from my son is a great big hug, acceptance and some quiet companionable moments.

But don't blame yourself for ANYTHING.

And congratulations on the huge steps forward you have made.  Above all, first and foremost, protect the small, innocent child picking flowers and happy just to be singing.  :D

surf14:
Wildflower, you will have to judge for yourself if your intervention is needed.  Your Mother would be best left to work out her problems on her own as long as you (you may be the closest one to her) ascertain first and foremost that she is 'safe'. With a family member that may be 'sinking' her safety is going to be the primary concern ie you may have to save her from herself whether she wants this or not, depending on the seriousness of her condition.  This is a terrible responsibility but again depends on how serious her mental state is.

Anonymous:
Hi Wildflower, it's me again, and I was curious how this part of your life is going. So instead of trying to remember it all and write it out with questions I just bought up the (Gosh it's been 5 weeks since we hashed this) old thread about your mum. Hope you don't mind, but I have been wondering how's this side of your life is working out.

Please - I feel a bit nosey. If it's too annoying or draining or any one of a million different types of intrusions on my part, please please, don't worry about it. You can leave it for another time if you even want to. Up to you.

CG

Wildflower:
Hi Guest,

You know, I was in so much pain when I wrote the first message in this thread.  I was crying so hard I could hardly write.  :cry:  :cry:  The phone call I’d had with my mother that night took me back to so many places in my childhood.  So many really bad places.  But that emotion doesn’t come through to me when I read this.  I was struggling so hard with trying to be a good, supportive, understanding daughter while getting beaten up by my suicidal mother?  Who’d believe that?!  I couldn't say what I was feeling.  These were just the words that got squished out.

I yelled at my mom quite a bit that night.  I mean yelled in the sense that if I used a normal voice she’d talk over me.  I literally had to scream once or twice to keep her from interrupting me so that I could get one sentence out.  I was in a complete panic that she was one foot out the door – and I was only pushing her that last bit more.  When I got off the phone with her, I felt I had killed her. I felt like a horrible selfish daughter who’d just pushed her hurting mother over the edge.  

I watched Second Hand Lions a day or so later, curled up in a ball, needing the idealism of a cheesy family movie to make me believe everything would be okay, if only for a little while.  In that movie, the kid yells at his uncle who was hinting at ending his life that he better not do anything.  The kid was a complete wreck, and I saw that's how I'd felt when I yelled at her at the very end, "Don't you DARE do anything to hurt yourself!!  Don't DO this to me!!  I'd never forgive you!!"  And then I immediatly felt horrible about THAT.  Don't do this to ME??  I'd never forgive YOU?  I was so, so desparate, though. :cry:  :cry:  :cry:

You know, it took three weeks to finally admit to my therapist that at one point I even found myself begging her to stop treating me like I was bullying her.  I was so ashamed of that.  I felt like “God, what is WRONG with me???  In the middle of HER crisis, here I am forcing my issues on her.”

I see now how sick she was making me.  I remember how my body rebelled.  I know there’s another wave coming up soon.  So I’ve been digging. Fortifying myself.  Not my shell, but my insides.  I’ve been trying to see/hear/feel what my therapist hinted at – that I can’t see how my mother hurts me because my emotions get in the way.  Her sickness has always hurt me.  And in some ways, it was a weapon.  I had forgotten some of this.  But I’m starting to see cracks in the story of just how sick she is.  I know she’s not well, but (one of my land mines), I think she may have been putting on more of a show when I needed her.  She seemed to have found quite a bit of energy to do what she really wanted to do.  That sounds like such a bitter, needy, spoiled child, doesn’t it?  Ugh.

Anyway, that’s all emotional stuff.  What about the reality of things?  The truth is, I don’t really know.  I can’t trust her to tell me the truth – the important details.  Not until the very last minute in the form of crisis, that is.  She’s been quiet for a while because the last crisis (foreclosure on the house, all the utilities being shut off, having no food) was averted.  

My relative paid her lawyer to re-file her bankruptcy claim (to prevent foreclosure).   I helped out with food (and will continue to do so for as long as she needs it- it’s the least I can do).  Her therapist friend gave her sympathy.  She squeaked by and made it through the last crisis.  And two nights ago, she sent me an email saying “I'm going back into crisis mode very soon”.  Don’t get me wrong.  I know she’s in a tough place.  I’ve been there.  I’ve been that poor.  It’s horribly stressful.  And here, folks, is my merry-go-round.  She’s made bad choices…but it’s a bad economy…

I see homeless people differently now.  I’ve always been respectful.  I’ve always been aware that bad things happen to people, and sometimes so bad that they end up not being able to take care of themselves.  Now, though, I can’t help thinking about just how close she is to the homeless people I see.  It really scares me.

Blech.

You know.  I thought it might be too draining, and I made a promise to cut out if I started feeling sick.  It's yucky, yes.  But, well, I dunno...things seem different now.  I feel stronger. Sigh.

Thanks for asking me to look at this again, CG.  I really mean that.  I think I needed another chance to express what was going on that night.

Wildflower

rosencrantz:
May I?


--- Quote ---I even found myself begging her to stop treating me like I was bullying her.
--- End quote ---


Does this remind you of the triangle thing and how the victim makes people around them into rescuers then persecutors?  The way out is to become a 'real' persecutor' and leave them to it.  I think you were on the right track.  But if she can't take responsibility to stop treating you that way, I suggest just taking yourself out of the loop.  Put the phone down!


--- Quote ---That sounds like such a bitter, needy, spoiled child, doesn’t it? Ugh.
--- End quote ---


I didn't notice that until you mentioned it - and I STILL couldn't see it afterwards, either.  The answer is NO.  But I do recognise having been through the same permanent guilt trip.  Just don't 'go there'!!  It's not worth beating yourself up in that way.  :)


--- Quote ---Don’t get me wrong. I know she’s in a tough place. I’ve been there. I’ve been that poor. It’s horribly stressful.
--- End quote ---


I accept that the unconscious can keep us down.  But you can struggle to get out of that bad place, whatever it is.  I pulled myself up by my bootstraps.  You got out of that bad place, too.  If someone is struggling to 'get out' then you can give them a helping hand.  Some people just want to drag you down with them; some people want to stay in the same place cos it feels safe.  It's a choice.  As you change, she may change too.  I don't suggest banking on it but while you help her stay where she is (irr-esp-ons-ible) then she gets reinforcement for the 'bad behaviour'.

I suppose you could try the 'I'll have all of you' lens and love her for the 'bad' bits as well as the good - but leave her to get on with it.

I'm totally astounded at that email!!!  I think I'd write back and say 'that's great that you're so aware of what's happening for you.  What's your plan to handle it'!!!!!  :!:  Would that sound cruel to you?  It sounds totally rational to me!!!  Child/parent - who's who???????

Hope I haven't 'overstepped'!!

Now, I really MUST get the family on the road!!!!!!  My H is giving me one of his 'looks'!!!  :wink:

TTFN
R

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