Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
monster or good daughter?
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: Wildflower ---
And then I know there’s another wave coming up soon. So I’ve been digging. Fortifying myself. Not my shell, but my insides. I’ve been trying to see/hear/feel what my therapist hinted at – that I can’t see how my mother hurts me because my emotions get in the way. Her sickness has always hurt me. And in some ways, it was a weapon. I had forgotten some of this. But I’m starting to see cracks in the story of just how sick she is. I know she’s not well, but (one of my land mines), I think she may have been putting on more of a show when I needed her. She seemed to have found quite a bit of energy to do what she really wanted to do. That sounds like such a bitter, needy, spoiled child, doesn’t it? Ugh.
Anyway, that’s all emotional stuff. What about the reality of things? The truth is, I don’t really know. I can’t trust her to tell me the truth – the important details. Not until the very last minute in the form of crisis, that is. She’s been quiet for a while because the last crisis (foreclosure on the house, all the utilities being shut off, having no food) was averted.
Wildflower
--- End quote ---
Hi Wildflower, and phew :) , I'm so glad you were okay with me dredging this thread up. Thanks for replying too.
It all sounds so uncertain to me. You know there's another wave coming soon. How do you stop your emotions from getting in the way, though?
I have a few home spun techniques, but I'd be interested to know what you'll do or intend to do with this next round that you know is coming?
You said her sickness has always hurt you, and in some ways it's a weapon. So the picture is, you are completely at a loss to know what to do to, for, or with her. So you get hurt.
That must place a tremendous burden (monkey on your back) on your shoulders which screams at you, "If you knew what to do to, for, or with her she wouldn't be like this, in this spot, and you wouldn't get hurt. So it's all your fault. You're responsible"
What your therapist hinted at about not being able to see how your mother hurts you and what's happening to you because your emotions get in the way. Did she mean by emotions your love and concern for your mother, or the emotions of pain you experience from the whole life experience with your mother? Or all of the above?
Gosh Wildflower, I'm rooting for you. I hope that you keep on building the internal fortitude and resistance. Sounds like you're gonna need it. Gee that was bleak wasn't it. Sorry. Even if you don't need it, it's good to be prepared, right? Right.
Phew! Let me give you a hug ( :shock: & :D ) (that's your face
the first one, and that's me, the next one.)
CG
Portia:
Hi Wildflower, you’re an example to us all, just look at yourself and feel very proud.
I read this different to R:
--- Quote ---That sounds like such a bitter, needy, spoiled child, doesn’t it? Ugh.
--- End quote ---
I thought you were talking about your mother and the answer is a resounding yes. She does sound like that child and probably IS.
But R also said:
--- Quote ---think I'd write back and say 'that's great that you're so aware of what's happening for you. What's your plan to handle it'!!!!!
--- End quote ---
Bravo! That’s such a manipulative email from your mum. You could add to R’s suggestion: “and I plan to have my own breakdown around the same time; I’m relying on you to be strong for ME”. Okay, that is overstepping…just to make a point.
It’s a fine line between being ok in society and being on the street. I’m aware of this all the time. I look at people with their big debts, relying on their pressured jobs, buying their status cars and think: how you expose yourselves to ruin! And how you tie yourselves to money! We had ex-stockbrokers on the streets in London after the last crash. I’m off again. Sorry. Anyway, a chap approached me once ‘can you spare some change?’ ‘No, but I’ve got a banana in my bag, do you want it?’ (I had got one.) ‘Er…no thanks, I don’t eat bananas’. (Thinks: tough then! Your choice. No banana for you.)
Just read: “I'm going back into crisis mode very soon”. The ‘mode’ word is interesting – state of mind, not state of food or finance? How does she know in advance? Or does she mean food etc? I’m interested, do you know? And has she ‘warned’ anyone else, or is it just you that gets this treatment? Grrr!
PS. ((((WF :o CG :shock: )))) P :wink:
Wildflower:
--- Quote ---I accept that the unconscious can keep us down. But you can struggle to get out of that bad place, whatever it is. I pulled myself up by my bootstraps. You got out of that bad place, too. If someone is struggling to 'get out' then you can give them a helping hand. Some people just want to drag you down with them; some people want to stay in the same place cos it feels safe. It's a choice.
--- End quote ---
There it is. I had to let this sink in, but there’s the key to what keeps me bound to her in confusion. :idea: Even if we don’t know what’s making us feel bad, even if we don’t know how to fix it, we can know something’s wrong. And we can struggle to find answers. We can find the courage in ourselves to face our fears, our demons. Or we can choose to stay with what’s familiar.
--- Quote ---"If you knew what to do to, for, or with her she wouldn't be like this, in this spot, and you wouldn't get hurt. So it's all your fault. You're responsible"
--- End quote ---
I thought she just didn’t know how to pull herself out. I thought she just couldn’t see the door. Her abuse was worse than mine. I thought I owed it to her to help her out since things were easier for me and I found a way out. Wrong, wrong, WRONG!
Mom knows she was abused. She tells the same stories over and over – but she doesn’t want to understand them. She wants sympathy. :idea: Who will feel sorry for her if she gets well? She knows that she’ll be out of money soon. She knows that if she doesn’t get a job soon, she won’t be able to pay for the house, pay the utilities, pay medical bills. She used to know that her mother would step in. She finally cut her mother out, so that stopped. She used to know that her friend would lend her money. He finally got fed up with feeling used, so that stopped. My relative and I are all that’s left, and we know we can’t allow her to run from her problems anymore. That would be condemning her more than it would be helping her.
--- Quote ---‘can you spare some change?’ ‘No, but I’ve got a banana in my bag, do you want it?’ (I had got one.) ‘Er…no thanks, I don’t eat bananas’. (Thinks: tough then! Your choice. No banana for you.)
--- End quote ---
She is surrounded by people who care about her. We have all tried to offer helpful suggestions, ways she can make more money until a job comes along (like rent out her extra room). She makes excuses. :!: Her sickness IS her excuse. We offer our experiences with similar situations, and we try to tell her that we understand where she’s coming from. She twists our support into criticism. :idea: She uses her victimhood to force us to rescue her then be her persecutors (yes, I see it now R). She doesn’t hear (maybe she really can’t) that we really do understand, and we really do want the best for her – for HER. Not for us. Whatever that is. And yes, with a string attached - that she find a way to take care of herself. To be responsible.
Even if she can’t tell up from down, even if she’s lost, even if she was terribly abused, she still has to decide to make her own way out. And this is NOT too much to ask. This is NOT expecting the impossible from her. It’s NOT like asking a 4-year-old to solve a calculus problem. She has the ability to get well. Now I see that. She’s intelligent, and she has people around her who care about her and want the best for her. But she doesn’t want to help herself out of this. She wants someone to take care of her – without telling her what to do.
--- Quote ---That sounds like such a bitter, needy, spoiled child, doesn’t it? Ugh.
--- End quote ---
I did originally write that about myself, but it really is about her, isn’t it? :shock:
--- Quote ---'that's great that you're so aware of what's happening for you. What's your plan to handle it'!!!!!
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---“and I plan to have my own breakdown around the same time; I’m relying on you to be strong for ME”.
--- End quote ---
This is all right on, not overstepping a bit. I laughed at the bit about planning to have my own breakdown during her crisis, but you know what? It’s kind of true. I probably will have a little bit of a breakdown in the next wave. Hopefully only little. In my dreams, not at all. And before I started working through all this, I probably would have put my feelings aside during that breakdown because my feelings aren't ‘as important as hers'. She’s the one who’s suffering, not me (wrong). She suffered so much more than I did as a child (irrelevant. Really?? Really!).
--- Quote ---What your therapist hinted at about not being able to see how your mother hurts you and what's happening to you because your emotions get in the way. Did she mean by emotions your love and concern for your mother, or the emotions of pain you experience from the whole life experience with your mother? Or all of the above?
--- End quote ---
She meant, I think, mostly my love and concern for her, and maybe some of the pain that causes all the guilt/confusion. I do love my mother, in spite of all the yucky stuff. I have moments of awareness in which I become so, so angry with her, and then guilt overwhelms me and I collapse into hating myself. And I resolve to shove all my ‘bad thoughts’ about her down. Way down. I forget. I’ve been in this awful cycle for so long! No more. :!: I didn’t understand before. And I didn’t have enough confidence in myself to stand up against the guilt. It feels terrible to be so angry with her, but I didn’t make this happen. I am NOT responsible for what happened to me as a child. :evil:
I got away from her, but I never really dealt with my feelings for her. I thought things were okay, even wanted to believe they were okay, because she didn’t need me anymore. She stopped needing me because I wasn’t there and her friend was. Her friend is gone, now it’s me again. Gosh. That's really all I am to her? :(
--- Quote ---I have a few home spun techniques, but I'd be interested to know what you'll do or intend to do with this next round that you know is coming?
--- End quote ---
I have a few ideas, mostly about protecting myself and who I want to be. 1) No more yelling, for one thing. Yelling at her rips me to shreds. If she can’t hear me, there’s nothing I can do. 2) Be kind whenever and however I can, because I can’t bear to lash out in her in frustration. That makes me feel horrible, too. 3) Find a way to get off the phone if my heart begins to race or I start feeling panicky. But beyond that? I’m not sure, but I hope that’ll become clear as these ideas tonight sink in a little more.
You guys, thank you. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
(((((((((( R CG Portia ))))))))))
Wildflower
rosencrantz:
Eureka! Congratulations! Well done! Hugs!
R :D
Anonymous:
Hi Wildflower, I'm so happy that your working through this and I wanted to share this with you. I was watching an interview a while ago with Gerry Adams, the Sinn Fein leader. He made a comment that I wrote dowm because it peirced me. He said "To make war we have to de-humanise. We can't do this when making peace."
These words haunted me till I found a context for them in my life.
All those years I laboured trying to make peace with my mother. I constantly humanised her. Excused her when she killed my dog because I knew she'd suffered terrible abuse as a child too. And she had. I let her of the hook when knocked me out because I acknowledged her pain about her boyfriend at the time.
When I stopped doing that nearly 10 years ago, it's like I changed and I made war on her in a sense. I de-humanised her. In the end I refused to consider her pain anymore because I had constantly allowed these thoughts of her own suffering to overrule my own needs. I had been enabling her to keep hurting me by acknowledging her history. I got what Gerry was saying. To go to war, sometimes we have to de-humanise the enemy, or we can't fight for our own life or rights effectively. Because we keep thinking about them. Meanwhile, who are they thinking about?
Just a thought I had and wanted to share with you.
CG
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