how to get through?

[pandora]

hello, me again.

N leaves in a few days for an extended trip/vacation.  (OT: what do you think it means to plan an extended absence in the wake of your affair, abuse, etc., leaving your damaged marriage and spouse to cope alone?  Perhaps RUNNING AWAY? )

I have already brought up the idea of using it as a trial separation in which to consider whether we should remain married.  

I don't think he really appreciates how serious I am about this.  He is actually making efforts to be sweet.  But I am so freaked out by anything he says or does lately, that it just makes me more uncomfortable.  

Since I get very emotional when trying to talk about this with him, I thought it might be best to write a short letter to him, basically saying that I am serious about a separation, that I don't know if I can stay married to him, and that if my feelings have not changed by the time he returns (2 months) one of us should move out and we should begin thinking about the best way to end the marriage.  I am being careful not to be mean or say anything that blames him, although to be honest, he has behaved appallingly toward me.  Also, even though I am writing a letter, it mainly so my message doesn't get clouded by an overly emotional delivery - I do expect there to be face to face discussion.

Is this a good strategy?  I feel that I really have to make sure he understands how serious I am, that it would not be right to let him leave for such a long period without knowing.  At the same time, I want to wait until a few days before he leaves so he doesn't have time to do anything crazy.  

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Anonymous]

"what do you think it means to plan an extended absence in the wake of your affair, abuse, etc., leaving your damaged marriage and spouse to cope alone?"

this is narcissism in a nutshell. What does it mean? To you everything & devastation. To him, nothing much happened.

Hope you feel stronger after his absence, sounds like he is draining you dry.

[pandora]

yes, looking forward to his going with much relief.  

Initially I was quite upset about the trip.  Now even though I see what it says about the place I really occupy in his world, and that hurts, I am glad because it gives me time to gather my defenses, call a lawyer, etc. without interference.

Another OT - my heart goes out to anyone who had to deal with an N for a parent.  Being involved with one as an adult, with the power to recognize and decide whether to leave or stay, is painful enough.  I can't imagine how horrible it must be for a defenseless and dependent child to experience it.

[Anonymous]

pandora,

Whatever you say/write to him, be sure you are ready to back it up with action. If you don't, he will learn that he can get away with quite a bit.

bunny

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't tell him anything. Nothing at all. It would be a good chance for you to just start making new plans, see a lawyer, go out with friends, don't be available everytime he calls. Treat him with respect at a distance. Keep it polite but you need to keep a safe distance emotionally. You can create distance and space by not jumping to the phone when he rings.

Don't call him everytime you have the urge. Distract yourself, ring a friend. It's been said, when you have the urge to ring them, wait for 2 hours. It works. See how YOU go.

Keep seeing your therapist. I'd tell him (husband) nothing. He will just go into overdrive if you give him your strategy, and he'll look for ways to head you off and get you doubting it. He may even start being more attentive. But you'll know if it's just a ploy at this stage.

I'd call this a separation or trial seperation in your mind. Don't let him into your mind. He doesn't deserve it. That's what I'd do.

N's love to be in control. Giving him information and your strategy gives him control. Did he ever give you his? Did he tell you he was going to have the affair before he had it? No he kept it a secret and he has paid no mind to how it has hurt you. Give him nothing. He hasn't earned it. He has to earn it form here on in, in my opinion

Guest

[Wildflower]

I think I agree with the strategy of keeping your plans to yourself, at least for as long as YOU need the time to have quiet and figure out where you want to be.

N's love to be in control. Giving him information and your strategy gives him control.

Think of all the noise and confusion that will cloud the issue once you tell him.  Even if he gives you the silent treatment, your mind will be reeling in wondering what his/your next move will be.

I say take him out of the equation for a bit and give yourself some peace. If the idea of keeping it from him for the entire two months makes you uneasy, maybe you could a time limit for yourself and see how you feel at the end of that time.  (A variation on the strategy of waiting 2 hours after you get the urge to call him).

My penny and a half

[seeker]

Hi Pandora,

I agree with the others: no letter.

However, since you mention your difficulty discussing separation, you might want to write something down to solidify your position in your own mind.  Like a mantra.  

If he comes at you with the crazy hurtful stuff again, just repeat your position over and over again.  It's called the "broken record" technique.  You repeat what you have to say over and over again so it doesn't get twisted, distorted, misdirected, etc.  It's also called sticking to your guns!

I also agree that you don't have to reveal your strategy.  I just offer this as a way to clarify your thinking amidst all the stormy emotions.  Even if it's something as simple as "I'm going to think about how I feel about this," it may help you get through the next few days.  

Anyway,good suggestions above.  Be sure to reward yourself for your independence during this time!  Peace, Seeker

[Anonymous]

Absolutely seeker, plus how many times have we read the stories of guys using trial separations that were discussed and implemented with their agreement, and they break the rules during the separation. Like using at as an excuse to have another fling. My girlfriends husband did this when they had a trial separation and his excuse after was, "well we were separated at the time". No, I'd definitely ponder these things in your heart and with your therapist and your close friends only.

[pandora]

Well, the topic came up anyway this morning.  

He actually brought up "where was our relationship".

I told him clearly that I still felt the same - that we should regard his long trip as a trial separation, and when he returns, if my feelings have not changed we should take steps to end the marriage.  I avoided any blame of him, and just said that perhaps we are incompatible, and that I am not strong enough to deal with his personality.  I don't think it would help much for me to confront him with the fact that our therapists think he is an N or NPD.

His response - well it looks like you have already decided, that he loves me but will not "beg".  He has said lots of things recently to me about how finding his own personal path is his top priority, and the relationship is secondary (and also seemed not to care if it was with me or someone new, since he expects to be such a better person in the end).  This morning he changed his tune slightly - saying all the self-focused work on "him" has really been a sign of how dedicated he is to our relationship he is.  Again telling me that he is working so hard on personal growth but sees no effort from me.  Why don't I quit my job, wear more sexy dresses, etc.  Everytime I try to tell him how I feel in our conversation, he says that I am making it "all about me" and my insistance on being hurt.

Then he holds my hand and tells me how important I am to him.  I always feel so confused after these conversations.  I hear what he says, but when I look at his actions -no effort to "win me back" after his affair, taking strange women out to lunch, planning an extended trip (the plans took shape right on the heels of his affair), and even though he claims to now respect my career and identity, somehow it always comes up as a sore point in our discussions.  

And I also hear what he didn't say - I'm sorry, I am committed to you, I won't stray again, I don't want our marriage to end.  

Well, the bright side is that I feel I did my moral duty by making my position clear.  Now I just have to get through the next few days.

[Anonymous]

I don't think it would help much for me to confront him with the fact that our therapists think he is an N or NPD.

Why don't I quit my job, wear more sexy dresses, etc

And I also hear what he didn't say - I'm sorry, I am committed to you, I won't stray again, I don't want our marriage to end.  

If you did tell him what what the therapists think he'd probably just find some way to blame you for them coming to that conclusion. Anyway, it's really their job to tell him if they feel it's appropriate, not yours.
What you wear is hardly the point, you're a free agent,  this is just a very pathetic attempt at a guilt trip.
Very astute of you to hear what he didn't say. I hope the next couple of months are good for you, it sounds like you could benefit from the headspace.

All the best

Guest

[Lizbeth]

Portia, I hope you are able to use the next few months alone the best way possible, on taking care of yourself and hopefully towards getting out from under for good, into the sunshine.  I think he is giving you a great gift.  All my best wishes.

Lizbeth

[lynn]

pandora,

I completely understand how you feel.  My N husband used some of the same lines in discussions.  For years and years, I was confused by his words.  So much was twisted and actions didn't match up to the words.

I know that  for lots of folks Vankin is considered to have an extreme position.  And I imagine that is true.  But when I was searching for information, some kind of logic to my life, his writings were the first that I found.  And they were a surprisingly accurate description of my husband.  I read different sources and found this board (which has been an island of reality).  In anycase, one thing that Vankin said caught my eye.  I'm definitely paraphrasing.... if you want to leave an N, the only real way is to convince the N that you absolutely have no more N-supply.  Otherwise, if the N feels that they can get anything from you, they will continue to work the situation.  If they believe there is no more N-supply they will run away fast in order to find another fix.

So, this is what I tried.  In ALL of my communication with my N I was not sad.  I was not angry.  I was not emotional.  Instead, I would say that I could not support him anymore.  I said that I had shifted in my thinking. I did not offer explaination.  I did not cry.  I was matter-of-fact.

I wanted to see what he would do.  I wanted to see if his sweetness would surface. I wanted to determine if he really is a N.  It was amazing.  His reactions were quintissential N behavior.  


and I could see him through new eyes.  More importantly, I could hear him through new ears.  When I removed my emotional involvement, he was predictable. Because my actions were different, his actions were exposed.  And FINALLY I could see the real deal.

He continues to blame me.  He has pointed out countless things about me that are wrong.  He continues to say that he does not want a divorce... and in the same breath he says, but if this is what you really want, there's nothing I can do to stop you.  He says that I am ruining his life.... and yet, he has made no attempt to do anything different.  For all of his extreme whining, he won't change a thing.  He's happy with the way he his.

This was more than I wanted to write.... I don't know if it will help, but it worked for me... it worked to make me stronger.  And my whole thing unfolded when Nhusband took and extended trip out of town.  It gave me time to catch my breath.  And get things in order.

All the best,  lynn