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Narcisisst and/or Sociopath?
Anonymous:
Hi and many thanks Rosencrantz, The Sybil story does sound a bit close to the bone for my liking. I wonder if one day, in a few hundred years all this stuff will be analysed and put together so cohesively. If there will systems of recognition in place, so that the 'public' will have a track to run on to help children in their families and extended family to get intervention earlier. Instead of the kids like us growing up and trying to work out what the @#*# happened later when we are adults. I certainly hope so. If it were then and not now, what would or should your dad have done to protect you as a child? What system could have been put in place to protect me? I wonder.
Hi c.j. and thankyou do much. It's all a matter of degrees, abuse I mean. I know mine was severe, insane in so many ways. And trying to understand it all is almost impossible for me, so I just opt for block out sometimes. :lol: Emotional fatigue sets in and then it seems the only thing to do. The fact that your situation is different to mine doesn't matter, it's equally as sad to me. Thankyou for sharing with me. And my poor dog, I know. When I cut off from her the last time, and finally, it was and is for ever. I don't care what any family members say anymore, they don't know or I think more precisely they 'can't cope with knowing and acknowledging what she is like'. If they did, they then might have to answer for why they never intervened when I was a kid. And that might be too difficult.
Hi Desolate Fox and your story about your father. GRRRRR. :cry: :evil: I go between the two feelings. These people who we confided in, who confronted the perpetrators in an attempt to get at the truth. Often do more harm than good. The one thing I thought for years later after the incident with my friends mother, when she confronted my mother, did she think about the fact that "I HAD TO GO HOME WITH MY MOTHER!!!!"
Did that woman think about that?
She was well meaning, but it was handled to incompetently. What was she going to do with the truth if mother admitted? What were the chances if it was true that my mother was going to admit it to her, a near perfect stranger? What were going to be the ramifications for me, as a child having to go home with my mother, after this woman confronted her? I know she was well meaning and sincere, and I applaud her for having the courage to address it. But it didn't help the abuse I was in, it compounded it in some ways. Life got much worse for me after this, and never was game to mention one thing to anyone that my mother did from then on.
What should she (my friends mother)have done? I don't know. Gone to the police maybe? I don't think she was qualified to investigate, that's really the police's job. I think if I could turn back the clock, that may have been best. Even if I had of gone into foster care what were the chances of that being worse than the situation with my mother? I don't know.
Maybe a police investigation would have got my extended family involved? Once again I don't know. But the thing I often think at about that lady, she was so nice, she didn't seem to think about the fact that "I HAD TO GO HOME WITH MOTHER." She probably thought about it later, although we never discussed it again.
Your poor aunt Desolate Fox, she obviously meant well, but she did the same thing, tried to conduct investigation that she wasn't equipped to follow through. That must have made life hell for you. Thanks for your response. I spoke to a domestic violence female police worker a few years ago, I told her something that happened to a family member, and she said to me, :"Why didn't you report this to the police?" I said, "Well, I was trying to get to the bottom of it." She said to me gently but firmly, "That is not your job, that's ours."
Maybe one day it will be illegal and a jailable offence for any and all adults to withold any information from police that any child gives us about any abuse or fear of abuse in their life.
Guest
Wildflower:
Hi Guest,
I'm still recouping from a pretty draining experience, so I may have a little trouble expressing myself here, but I just had to respond to your terribly sad and frightening story.
--- Quote ---The orphanage experience silenced me once for all for about 35 years I think. It was very effective indeed. I never shared or told any of the stuff from her, even as an adult until recently. I still felt somehow she'd find a way to punish me if I did. I never told my first husband much at all. I just often found myself having to explain her cruel behaviour. I never told my kids much or anything really about her, and even in therapy I tend to avoid topics about her.
--- End quote ---
I'm soooooooo glad that you've finally started talking about this and I hope that by talking and giving your thoughts and feeligs some air, you will be able to have relief and happiness that more than compensates for the pain you've been through. It's simply shocking that she's been able to get away with her cruelty for so long - and with children!
And please keep talking. I find that I go through spurts in dealing with my family, and then I get worn out and have to think about other things for a while. But as time goes by, I get less and less worn out, and the need to revisit old memories dies away as I begin to understand them.
--- Quote ---I know she was well meaning and sincere, and I applaud her for having the courage to address it. But it didn't help the abuse I was in, it compounded it in some ways. Life got much worse for me after this, and never was game to mention one thing to anyone that my mother did from then on.
--- End quote ---
You have every right to feel angry with this woman for not helping enough, I don't want to suggest otherwise. But given what you've said about your mother and how sadistic she was, it seems to me that it was only a matter of time before she found some reason to park in front of that orphanage and threaten you with complete abandonment. I'm saying this only because - even though my life was so much easier than yours - I know how easy it is to make yourself crazy wondering about "what ifs". What if I hadn't said something to my friend that day? What if I'd told her a different story? What if my friend's mother had been able to help out more? What if I hadn't [fill in the blank]? My guess is that your mother would have silenced you whenever and however you first attempted to reach out for help.
I wish you all the strength and luck and courage and support as you work your way through this. Welcome.
Wildflower
DesolateFox:
Hi again, guest. I was thinking about my post and your response, and I realized that what I did in that instance regarding my step-aunt and cousin was that I told my cousin what was going on. She then got my aunt and made me tell her. Who then told my father, who went bonkers. The problem is that my father is a typical sociopath. He is very charming, and gets people to believe whatever he wants.
I have intervened when I saw a child being abused. That was mostly when I was a teen, but once as an adult I pulled up to a car in which a mother was beating her child with her fists. She was a THERAPIST!!! I did report her to the police, and don't know what happened, but I did feel that confronting the parents in front of the kids let the kids know it wasn't normal or okay. Part of my problem growing up was that my dad projected this "normal" view to the world. Even my mother's mom and sister thought he was great (not her other sisters and brothers). My grandmother treated my mom awful, so she thought that any problems between my parents were her fault. I wish she could have seen him for what he was. My grandmother was a great grandmother to me, but she was always hard on my mom and gave my dad the benefit of every doubt. So I wish someone had come in and told me that he was abnormal, which is what I always believed, but he got over on people and they would support him against his own child.
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: Anonymous ---I try hard to forget my mother. I left her behind a long time ago, but I know I've had PTSD from being her daughter. And hooking up with vociferous, patronizing, selfish people was a breeze after her. Even N's have seemed easy to deal with, almost like a breath of fresh air after her.
My mother was incredibly beautiful, and often got away with being so cruel for fun or revenge. She even did a half successful penis-lopping with a razor-blade on a guy for fun. When he had an affair and begged her to forgive him, her condition was "only if you let me cut your fingernails." She made me sit and watch while she cut his fingernails, right down into the bed, saying, "Thi is what happens to people who hurt me." All his fingers bled and he couldn't work for days. He was a builder.
Another time she set his testicles on fire when he was passed out drunk and he ran into my room, naked and screaming for me to put the fire out. I was about 8. Here I was out in hte yard with the hose on this guys testicles. She'd nicked off for the night. Came home the next day and treated it like a big joke. "Any bastard wants to screw around on me, and they'd better watch out!"
She drowned my dog in front of me, because "It's a little yapper."
She oganised my first child being adopted out without my knowldge till the last minute. A nurse told me. I couldn't work out why mother was paying so much attention and was at the hospital a lot. When I found out I cleared off out of the hospital early, after a ceasarian section, and hid out at a friends place for 2 weeks, till my bithday which made me legal age to keep my baby.
Another guy she was with, when she got mad at him she used to feed dog food to him, and he didn't know, but she'd tell me. Or sometimes if she was mad at anyone, she'd get their toothbrush and scrub under the toilet rim with it, saying " Get hepatitis and die you bastard," then put it back. I saw her do this quite a lot. I would try to go in later and wash the toothbrush. Needles to say whenever she was angry with me I'd hide my toothbrush. :lol: And I used to hate eating anything I didn't see her make.
She did too many awful things for me to go into, but one time, when I was about 10 I was sleping at a friends house, I had a nightmare and woke up crying. My friend's mother came in and asked me if I was okay. I told her something about my mother that she had done to me, that was TRUE. I'd never shrared one story with anyone before this. I was always and still am the comic, the funny lighthearted one. Always making people laugh. The next day she (my friend's mother) confronted my mother with my 'Story'. My mother cried in front of her and me, and 'begged' me to tell the truth. She said to me in front of my friend and her mother "Why are you lying about me?"
When we got home mother made a phone call, then she packed my bag, I didn't have much so it didn't take long. Then she drove me to an orphanage. We parked outside the orphanage, and she sat in the car and told me that she had arranged for me to go there. She was so sick of me and my lies. How could I make up such stories about her. I was crying and begging not to be sent to an orphanage. I remember looking at that building and being terrified. Then eventually she offered me the out. That if I admitted to my friend's mother that I was lying, and promised never to tell stories about her again I could stay living with her. I did. I went back and 'admitted' to my friend and her mother that I made it up for sympathy, that I was lying. My friend withdrew for a while, but then she believed me. I guess because she came to my house and could see how weird it all was.
My mother's cruelty never stopped. One time she pretended that she had killed and cooked my children. She'd offered to look after my children while my ex and I went to a show. She enver offered to look after my kids. Stupid me. When I got home I could smell meat cooking. We were vegetarians. I said what's cooking, she said "2 little boys." I ran to the kitchen and the oven light was on, she had a leg of lamb cooking wrapped up in babies jump suit, although I didn't know it was a leg of lamb at the time. I ran to the cot and the baby wasn't in the cot. I passed out, really, I actually passed out, and my husband of the time thought I over-reacted. She'd put the baby in bed with the older child. And she'd planned the whole thing, and bought the leg of lamb over in her bag to play this trick.
Anyway, I think she was an NPD type but way much more. Maybe she is a sociopath, or just a nut, I don't know. The orphanage experience silenced me once for all for about 35 years I think. It was very effective indeed. I never shared or told any of the stuff from her, even as an adult until recently. I still felt somehow she'd find a way to punish me if I did. I never told my first husband much at all. I just often found myself having to explain her cruel behaviour. I never told my kids much or anything really about her, and even in therapy I tend to avoid topics about her.
I sometimes wish I had of not backed down, stuck to my guns, and gone to live in that bloody orphanage. I was offered an out and didn't take it. I'm thinking I still might do that sometimes.
Thanks for reading, and sorry if it's too yukky.
Guest
--- End quote ---
Thankyou to everyone who responded to this bit of my history that I shared.
Wildflower and Desolate Fox, you can't know how thought provoking your posts were for me.
Every reply from you all has impacted me greatly, and this disclosure nearly three weeks ago led me on an unexpected emotional and psychological journey of discovery. For me, a huge peice of the confusing puzzle regarding my mother fell into place while writing a story about her. I was reflecting on her and your comments.
My whole life in relation to her HAS been dominated by this one tiny three-letter word, "Why?"
Why did she do this? Why did she say that? Why? Why? Why? Why didn't I stop her? Why did I let her? Why is she like this? Why? Why? Why?
I now know 'WHY', much much much thanks to you all. The blinkers fell of. 'PLOP.
I feel 20 years younger and 10 kilo's lighter, AND, AND, AND, AND, I could go on forever. I even stopped smoking 12 days ago, since this penny has been dropping. BIG PENNY! BIG DROP!
My mother has spent MY whole life, up until I cut her off COMPLETELY nearly 10 years ago, belittling and degrading me. She has followed me from city to city whenever I moved. She has infiltrated every circle of friends, even new ones and criticised me and told lies about me. I was always shocked when I found out, and could never understand why or how a mother could do this. I always believed she'd grow up or out of it, so I kept leaving myself open and it would happen again and again. Terrible dissembling of my social circles and family contacts.
I know 'WHY' now!
DISCREDITING THE WINESS. And I never saw it before. She's spent nearly all my adult life trying to discredit me, often the only witness to her disgusting behaviour and terrible cruelties. It's so simple and understandable in the light of this, 'WHY?' she has always discredited me. If I sound a bit dramatic I apologise, but this has unravelled a huge mystery for me.
She was so evil, some of the things I've seen her do to people, I still can't talk about. And I think she has lived in fear of me telling people what I've seen, what she's done. So she followed me around, town to town, state to state for over 25 years till I was nearly 40, and meeting everyone I would get close to me, undermining their confidence in me. Suggesting I exaggerate, that I live in fantasy, that I tell lies for attention.
Why? She's been scared I would tell.
So to combat this she's set about for years discrediting me. Bunny was right, she is a psychopath. I'm so glad I've not seen or heard from her for so long. And her strategy isn't working anymore because she's not allowed in.
But whenever I think about her now, which is still often, and I think about how she's lied about me and caused me pain in discrediting me I no longer say to myself, "WHY?" Now I know why and everything in this regard looks totally different
I used to somehow take on the blame. "Oh, if only I was more forgiving, more tolerant, more loving, not so proud."
No, I realise now none of this would have made, or did make any difference whatsoever. And anyway, I was doing everything I could to be those things.
No, she had a completely agenda, and has been trying to destroy the evidence, re-write history and discredit the witness all of my adult life.
Thankyou once again to all who responded. You've really made a difference to me.
Guest
Wildflower:
Hi Guest,
I’m so glad you’re back!! Welcome again! :D
--- Quote ---My whole life in relation to her HAS been dominated by this one tiny three-letter word, "Why?" Why did she do this? Why did she say that? Why? Why? Why? Why didn't I stop her? Why did I let her? Why is she like this? Why? Why? Why?
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---DISCREDITING THE WINESS. And I never saw it before. She's spent nearly all my adult life trying to discredit me, often the only witness to her disgusting behaviour and terrible cruelties. It's so simple and understandable in the light of this, 'WHY?' she has always discredited me. If I sound a bit dramatic I apologise, but this has unravelled a huge mystery for me.
--- End quote ---
Wahooooooooooo! I’m so happy for you in this discovery! :D :D That must have been some hard work, but nothing like getting those blinders off, hunh?
Just wanted to say my congratulations, and I hope we hear more from you on this board. :D
Wildflower
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