What to do with death?

[Avery]

I'm not sure if any of you have dealt with this, but I feel a bit anxious and I'm hoping that some of you can relate.  I haven't spoken to NMom for almost a year now.  Lots of guilt.  I know that her husband is very sick and probably won't live much longer.  (Lung Cancer).  I don't really have any ill will toward him, but I don't want to call him because I don't want to get sucked in again.  Lots of guilt because I'm a selfish bitch and I'm sure I'll feel worse that I never called him after he dies.  I'm also terrified because I know that when his time comes, I will somehow be forced to take care of my mother.  I don't want to be heartless, but I don't want any part of it.  I know that when he dies I will be expected by my entire family to fly up north to take care of her, make arrangements, etc.  and I refuse to do that.  Lots of guilt. She will use this as an opportunity to turn my family against me since I am such a terrible daughter.  I finally feel somewhat sane again - I'm afraid she'll ruin that for me.  How do you get rid of the guilt?  How do I say no to her when she's grieving and distraught?  I know that the time is coming and I'm terrified.  Can anyone help?

Avery

[Wildflower]

Hi Avery,

I haven't spoken to NMom for almost a year now. Lots of guilt.

I don't know if what I have to say can help, but I think I know how this feels.  I've cut off my father twice in my life.  The first time, I had recurring nightmares that I'd answer the phone and he'd be on the other end ready to rip my heart in two.  I finally cracked and gave in after receiving a simple card from him on my birthday saying "I miss you."  I cut him off again a couple of years ago, but this time I didn't crack.  I just decided that it was too difficult for me to cut him out completely.  He's my father.  He doesn't deserve to be, but he is.  And the stress it was causing me to keep him out was too much for me.  The guilt was too much.  Maybe I'll reach a point where I can cut him off for good, but I've decided to forgive myself for now and know my limits.  This is the best I can do.

So now I focus on strategies for interacting with him in ways that allow me to stay in tact - and in contact.  In a reply on another thread, Rosencrantz suggested that maybe you could try to limit your contact with your mother to 10 minutes at a time.  I'd add, be prepared with excuses to get off the phone (better yet, have real things you have to attend to).  What I've found about some of these coping strategies is that while I'm with my father, I risk getting sucked in (though less and less as I develop new strategies), but I recover more quickly after seeing him.  I walk out the door or hang up the phone and shake him off.  Done.  Until my next dutiful interaction.

But maybe you need to stay away from your mother.  I really don't know.  My mother can't survive in the presence of her mother, so we talk about the fact that it will be hard when her mother finally dies (though I'm convinced she's going to out live us all for the sheer torture of it).  It's her mother, she doesn't deserve to be, but it's her mother.  And my mother will feel terrible when she dies - it's natural.  But as Rosencrantz often points out, my grandmother is responsible for her own actions not my mother.  If my grandmother cries out from her death bed over and over again, well, she has to pay the consequences of having 'cried wolf'.

Regarding her husband, maybe you could write him a letter to let him know he's in your thoughts.  Send him some kind words.

About turning your family against you, I'm sorry if this was in an earlier post and I missed it, but is there anyone in this family who can share some of this burden with you (brothers, sisters)?

Oh, and you're not a selfish bitch!!!!  No way.  Sometimes, when I feel that way, I have to remind myself that if it were my friends in need instead of my family, I'd be there in a flash.  They force us to be cold and selfish - or at least, to feel that way.

Good luck and stay strong,
Wildflower

[Anonymous]

thank you for your quick reply.  i have many brothers and sisters, but the  majority of them have either cut her off or are either still under her spell (you should see the way she orders them around - it's disgusting).  she doesn't put the guilt mess on them; she's mostly just critical and cruel.  calls them stupid or worthless.  most of them are her step-children and they were badly abused most of their lives.  according to her, they are all losers and i'm the only one that's worthy - meaning that i'm the one she expects to take care of her. she's driven almost everyone away from her and i know that she will be completely alone very soon.  i worry about that, even though she totally deserves it.   the only sibling that i really talk to is an older 1/2 brother...we have very little in common, but we try to keep in touch.  he had such a hard childhood - it's so obvious when you see how extra gentle he is with his own children.  i haven't told him about my "fight" with mom, because i didn't want to put him in the middle.  i'd like to ask him so many questions to find out if he remembers things being as terrible as i do.  probably not a good idea, huh?  

avery

[Survivor]

Avery,

I have just gone through what you are talking about.  I will tell you my story and hope maybe it will help you in some way.  I had cut off my NMother for many years.  My dad became ill in December with terminal cancer.  I knew I'd have to be around my Nmom visiting my dad in the hospital.  I went to visit my dad regularly and she was always there trying to control everything that was going on.  I just ignored her as much as possible and did NOT let her gain an inch with me.  I answered her if it was absolutely necessary.  My dad died on Jan 25, 2004.  At the funeral, I did not speak to or look at my mother.  (She was quite the actress with fake tears    at his funeral . . . very sad!)  

Since my dad has died, I have had NO CONTACT with her.  This is what I realized; YOU DO NOT MATTER TO THEM AT ALL . . . they only USE YOU FOR THEIR OWN GRATIFICATION.  If you refuse to play the role, they will ALWAYS find another source to fill that role.  I decided I would not dance the dance any longer and save my own sanity.  The pay off is too great.

In my situation, trying to have just a "civil" relationship did not work.  Here is why; if I even cracked the door ever so slightly, my NMother would bust the door open and try to take full control.  She did not respect my boundaries at all.  I no longer feel guilty for having nothing to do with her.  It is a choice for me to take care of myself instead of letting her steam roll over my boundaries.

I can tell you, my NMother has gotten more desperate since my dad died.  I've always heard, "desperate people do desperate things" and I believe it!  She is trying to manipulate me by telling my sister I cannot have any of my dad's things unless I come to her house.  I told my sister the "things" are less important than my peace of mind and my mom can keep the material things.  (She is trying desperately to CONTROL and get me back into her life).  The funny thing is, I had not spoken to her in years before my dad became ill.  She, in her crazy thinking, thought because I came to visit my dad when he was dying that I was "back" and going to be in her life.  

Good luck to you . . . I don't know if this will work for you, but it has worked for me.  I feel no remorse for taking care of myself.  After all, the Narcissist feels no remorse ever!

Survivor

[rosencrantz]

Avery - I've been dealing with a similar situation over the past year - you'll find the story elsewhere on the Board.  

I think the summary I can give you is that 'normal' people don't need you to feel guilty, even when they are dying (or especially if they are dying).  Make contact with him if you have things to say that you'll regret not saying, if you love him, if you want to thank him for anything.  That's all you need to do.  You could ask him if there's anything he wants from you, anything you could do for him...

The other thing about your mom - Don't fall into holes of your own making.  You think that your mom is expecting you to...

When I started in my life generally to start saying 'no' to things, I discovered that I actually needed to start not filling up the blank spaces.  There's a silence and I'd fill it with 'oh, I'll do that'!!!  

Don't even give them half a chance.  They have to ASK if they want and you STILL have the choice to say NO!!!  In assertive language, you just say 'no'. And then avoid filling the next silence by explaining and excusing!!!  

I was terrified my mother would expect to come and live with us!!!  But it didn't happen and I realised that actually she had more contacts where she was.  I did get the odd pointed remark about what 'everybody' thinks because they'd say 'what about your daughter' so she 'had to make excuses for me'!!!  But just 'take it on the chin' as a quid pro quo for not having to have her there!!  

I just keep saying, "I know, but I just can't cope"  I've always been everyone's strong one and, you know what, WHY???  She's the mother, the parent - she's supposed to be in charge.  She wants to be in charge of everything anyway, so leave her to it!!  So what if that makes you feeble-minded in her book - you'll be a darn sight more feeble-minded if she turns up  

On the other hand, I've done everything I can to make sure that she's safe.  I KNOW she has enough money, there are as many people round her as I could find to help - she's chewed 'em all up by now and spat them all out again but I can't fix that.  I've done my bit.  Horse to water and all that.

I remind myself that she's spent the last ten or 15 years (since retirement) purposefully being as dependent as possible and not living any kind of life at all.  I feel pain for her for that, but that was her choice.  I tried to talk her out of it (I dreaded the consequences for myself!!!) but she CHOSE this life.  I think she was expressing a kind of anger - "you, life, won't play my game any more so this is my two fingers to you.  I shall be Queen in my own home."

I am SORRY for the pain in her life and I know that she didn't have the opportunities I have for books, internet, therapy, etc and I understand it was probably too difficult for her to face the shame that's at the core of all this.  But, still, I didn't get the silver spoon - I actively CHOSE these things - I made the move, I pushed myself through the pain barrier, I came kicking and screaming into the world to find a husband, a home, an income, a family, a future.  

You know, I'm wrong - she could have found SOME ways.  When I was 19, she could have asked my psychiatrist - 'If you can help her, can you find someone to help me?'  'If you're taking my daughter away, help me cope'.  Instead she still rages at me and still rages about him, 30 years on.  The ravages of hurt pride???  He's still there, and she knows he's still there!!!  He probably wasn't 'quite' important enough for her.  

But then I also know she's been 'let down' by the system.

Groan!  Round and round I go!!!  One day 'N' will be properly understood and we'll all be able to get our heads round it much more quickly!!!
R