let yourself be just another person

[Wildflower]

Portia: …you walked against everyone else, going your own way, out on your own and I wondered, what if you joined up with other people, let yourself be just another person than someone so tough and strong, carrying the world on your shoulders

This was a comment posted on the ‘Just learn to cope’ thread, but I’m hoping we could talk about this a little more.  The idea of being like everyone else, of going with the flow, of being average, has been my lifeline more often than I can say.  

Little things like wash on Monday, ironing on Tuesday, packing away seasonal clothes...it took starting with and following accepted traditions to find my own groove, and eventually peace in my own home (I LOVE a clean home, by the way).

My father believes in an elite where people read and think great things, while the rest of the world picks the lint out of their belly buttons.  But I see a world of people going to work and being with other people - being social.  Being in this world.

My family looks down on sporting events as something for the brain dead masses.  I started going to basketball games a couple of years ago, started playing basketball myself a little after that, and now I understand, instinctively, so much more about teamwork - and playing well with others.

My friends are able to say “I don’t know how to handle that,” and “I wish I could help you, but I don’t know how.”  And no one threatens them with suicide or criticism or neglect or physical abuse.

What I’m rambling about is an attempt at describing how we, especially ACON’s, have been denied good examples, and in order to heal, we have to seek out our own examples.  And for me, common sense and shared wisdom have been enormously helpful – when I’m not resisting them because I come from an abusive family or trying to be a superhero who can take on all the burdens my family can dish out.


Is there a question here?  Yes.  Some of my former friends used to chide me for wanting to be normal, for “selling out” by wanting the security of a stable income, for wanting to join in the crowd.  Has anyone else had this issue banging around in their heads?

Wildflower

[Portia]

In a word Wildflower, yes! I wanted a normal family so badly.  I need some stability and sense of order so I can let my mind go off. For example I listen to a particular radio programme every morning to connect with the world; and I need that ritual, that sense of connection and order.

The more I listen to people, watch them, the more I think that the crowd doesn’t really exist. People are much stranger than we think, I’m sure. And so much more these days in the West, with our communities breaking up through increased material standards of living. I agree with you about common sense and shared wisdom: I wish my extended family were closer to me and vice-versa, but it’s probably too late. It’s difficult to make friends when society is so full of materialism and people trying to dull the fears and pains in their lives with stuff they buy, holidays they take, promotions they want etc etc. Interestingly we had a 2-hour long ‘psychology’ programme on free tv one Saturday night called Status Anxiety: about how we’re heading for breakdown in a world where everyone thinks they should be at the top or a celebrity!

Some of my former friends used to chide me for wanting to be normal, for “selling out” by wanting the security of a stable income, for wanting to join in the crowd.

That’s so funny! They presumably chided you because you wanted something different to them and were therefore refusing to conform to their view of the world? Yes?! Non-conformists can be so conforming! I went into a ‘gothic/alternative’ record shop dressed in a work suit. A couple of Goths wearing black long dresses giggled and pointed at me …for being conventional and therefore different!  

I’m rambling, love the subject Wildflower, very pertinent to me right now…trying to be just another person so I don’t feel quite so abnormal, P

[rosencrantz]

When I was little, I used to 'tidy up' a lot.  There was a drawer under the TV which contained odds and ends - elastic bands, paperclips, I guess.  And every now and then I'd put it all in order.

I can see that I was trying to put some order into my life - trying to make the disordered, ordered.  Still trying!!  Still trying to live a life which isn't thrown into chaos by my mother's disordered existence - and still not succeeding very well

Having read your posts, I find myself seeking to define and differentiate between a 'disordered' life and a 'bohemian' lifestyle.  The results are probably the same (us, bewildered kids who don't know which way is up) - but the roots must be different because the bohemian makes a choice (however unwise, misguided, etc 'we' might think they are) whereas the truly disordered don't have a choice.

I imagine the bohemians off saving the planet, or being 'creative', social butterflies, gracefully skipping from relationship to relationship, totally focussed on their 'alternative' lifestyles, all-consumed and self-destructive, and thereby absorbed in their own absorption (rather than trapped in their own  mirror like the NPD).

Hmmm - so the the root would be less the 'entitlement' of the NPD who believe they are too good for this world  - but more a sense of already having been given too much - a sense of NOT being entitled.  The shame of the first vs the guilt of the second, not wanting to hang around long enough to be accused.

I don't know whether that makes them more to blame or just as 'lost' as we are...

Narcissism as a social and cultural phenomenon, rather than a medical category???  Or sister-ACONs just like us?  Or both??

Still pondering...
R

[Anonymous]

Some people use a bohemian lifestyle to legitimize their narcissism, i.e., they are "special" and "artistic" and don't have to follow the rules. They can be just as narcissistic as anyone else. My feeling is that narcissism cuts across all lifestyles.

bunny

[seeker]

Hi there!

This is a wonderful thread.  I think about this stuff all the time.  Even when I was in high school, I noticed that while my peers were stridently "rebelling" vs their parents, they were steadfastly conforming with each other, saying they were "independent" and "non-conforming".  I didn't get it totally, because there I was all by myself, being scorned for being really non-conformist (in their view--I wasn't that radical).  My attitude/defense was "take me as I am".  I was kind of challenging people to look below the surface, even though no one took me up on it   .

I love the cartoon, Portia.  Great stuff and I'm glad to know other people see this dynamic.  It kind of changes the question into "If I am myself, where do I belong?"  I have always struggled with this.  The very sad thing to me is, I have never felt like I belonged anywhere.  I think I posted on another thread that I was also party to my own discomfort, because if I joined, I would lose myself--because of the overwhelming demands of doing for others and not getting anything back.  That is, because of my family environment I had to stand on my own, figure things out for myself.

I also find Group Think very scary.  Always have.  Political parties really, really irritate me.  I tend to take the cafeteria approach to voting the issues, vs. take a party's stand on one issue, take them all.  Frankly, I don't know if this is an ACON issue or just me.  I do think Rosencrantz is onto something about societal narcissism.  I think we Americans as a whole are incredibly N (so are some other countries, nyah, nyah,   ) but we're probably the worst, because we're #1   .  We're not patriotic unless we're dropping a bomb on some Bad Country.  

I also hate the fact that once you join a group, then other groups are inferior, need to be put down, resented or dismissed.  Why?  Can't they just be?  If you attend one university in the country, must all the other ones suck?  This is pretty ridiculous.  

On the other hand    I also know that what I crave is agreement and validation.  Isn't that a form of conforming?  Maybe not.  Thoughts?

[Wildflower]

Thank you all for your replies.  They’ve really helped put things into perspective for me and I think see it now.  

Being ‘average’ or ‘normal’ or ‘like everyone else’ was my way of breaking free from the cage of grandiosity.  My world was cut off by my parents’ words that allowed them to think better of themselves.  I repeated these words and alienated people.  I internalized these words and limited myself by refusing to try certain ‘unacceptable’ things.  I limited my desires and emotions by not allowing myself to be ‘weak minded’ or ‘inferior’ or ‘base’.

Now I’ve gone the other direction, but I think that’s okay for now.  By allowing myself to be average and just like everyone else, my world has opened up to all kinds of new possibilities – some I’ll keep, and some I’ll decide aren’t for me after all.  But at least it’ll be from experience – not from fear.  

Portia wrote: The more I listen to people, watch them, the more I think that the crowd doesn’t really exist. People are much stranger than we think, I’m sure.

This really struck me because I remember the day I stood on a corner and realized I couldn’t ‘see’ people because I couldn’t recognize how different everyone was – even when they appeared to be the same.

Rosencrantz wrote: Having read your posts, I find myself seeking to define and differentiate between a 'disordered' life and a 'bohemian' lifestyle. The results are probably the same (us, bewildered kids who don't know which way is up) - but the roots must be different because the bohemian makes a choice (however unwise, misguided, etc 'we' might think they are) whereas the truly disordered don't have a choice.

I felt like you were in my head when I read this because I don’t remember saying anything about bohemian lifestyle, but outsiders have viewed my mother’s life this way, and it’s such an interesting question: disordered vs. bohemian.

Rosencrantz wrote: Hmmm - so the the root would be less the 'entitlement' of the NPD who believe they are too good for this world - but more a sense of already having been given too much - a sense of NOT being entitled. The shame of the first vs the guilt of the second, not wanting to hang around long enough to be accused.

I’m not sure I understood this part, though, and I was wondering if you could talk a little more about the shame vs. guilt you mentioned.

seeker wrote: The very sad thing to me is, I have never felt like I belonged anywhere. I think I posted on another thread that I was also party to my own discomfort, because if I joined, I would lose myself--because of the overwhelming demands of doing for others and not getting anything back. That is, because of my family environment I had to stand on my own, figure things out for myself.

I hear this loud and clear!  I think this is why it’s been difficult for me to get past a certain level of intimacy with people.  I’ve been so afraid of being sucked in and lost – without even realizing that’s what I was so afraid of.  And yet, I none of my friends were asking me to do this, to lose myself.  I was doing this out of habit.

Wildflower

[rosencrantz]

Just a quickie in reply...

guilt is about our actions (what we did) - shame is about our fundamental 'self', our being (who we are)...

That's from a discussion on another thread we had last year - Shame the Ultimate Voicelessness.
R