Author Topic: 20 yr old son deeply involved with 19 yr old bipolar  (Read 4207 times)

3Angels

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20 yr old son deeply involved with 19 yr old bipolar
« on: March 20, 2007, 07:32:40 PM »
Hello. First off, I want to thank everyone for  your thoughts.
My son has been going with his girlfriend for 2 years. "who knew?"  1 year after they were dating - she was diagnosed as bipolar. How it started - she would not take "no" for an answer. My son wanted to her to leave our home and she wouldn't.  She was manic and she wouldn't  stop talking and arguing.  If she was in his truck - she would not get out of his truck.  Finally - she would not stop at being locked out of our home.  She tried to break into our  house. To which an older sibling called the police, they came, took  her away,  and she was hospitalized for 2 weeks. That is when she was diagnosed. My son and her  continue to  see each other. All will be fine and then something triggers her.   When she gets ANGRY - she gets angry.  She kicked and broke his windshield. They make up.  Then they get into an argument  - (they are alone when these things happen). She is screaming, carrying on, getting  physical, and the neighbors call the police.  (that time - she physically broke my front door.  Heavy metal door - she's only 5')  That time - the DA determined she was the aggressor - and ordered her to stay away from my son for 2 years.  Of course they don't listen.  The police were called 2 weeks ago. When she gets MANIC - she goes after my son.  He has to push her out of his way and flee.  He does not want to be accused of abuse when he is only trying to protect himself or get away from her.
A friend of mine told me "mental illness is contagious".  I think I know what she means by that.  When you are in a situation like that - you tend to act like the aggressor - you start to lose yourself. My son has gotten so upset - so angry  that he has called  her parents and told them some negative things about her. I think he does it out of frustration and he doesn't know what else to do.
****Because of this - her and her family have  decided to go into DENIAL.  They have decided there was nothing wrong with their daughter until she started to hang around my son.  It  is all his fault.  The mother told me they "hate" my son.  (which I could care less - that's not the issue)  She has also told me that her daughter is OBSESSED with my son (isn't that a clue to them, that there are some real issues here?)  The mother also told me TWO TIMES that they would like to throw her out, but they can't because they would worry about her.
I'll call her Gabby.  When Gabby is in a calm state - she is a sweetheart.  When she becomes Manic - I am fearful for my son. I am also fearful that he will think this relationship is “normal”.  He would like to break it off from her - but she won’t let him go.  If they fight - there’s 100s of phone calls and text messages from her. 
I  am worried.  I wish the best for Gabby.  Gabby has a lot of good attributes, but it’s shadowed by her violent abusive behavior.  I don’t know what to do.  My son does not want to talk about it.  He won't take her around his friends because she has embarrassed him by going manic in front of them.  He brings her to my house.  Which I don’t  mind because I love him and it’s his home.  **She told me that he is unhappy with her because she quit taking her medicine.  I don’t know what to do.  The last time there was a problem -I suggested to her that they go to counseling . I  say these things to her because I never get the opportunity to talk with my son, and he doesn't want to talk with me about it.  I can’t make my son not see her.  I worry she’ll either hurt him or he may accidentally hurt her by trying to protect himself or when he tries  to get  away from her.  The last time - she came after him - he shoved her away.  She cried wolf . Said he “kneed her in the eye, then hit her in the eye”
She tried to boo hoo it to me - but I could tell her eye was just fine. 
Fortunately, she is protective of him to the police.  She doesn’t lie to them.  She tells them the truth.  Only she leaves out the details  of how she gets physical with him.  And the police don’t see my son because he leaves as fast as he can.  Think she will get better?  We have tried to get our son to read and become knowledgeable about this disorder.  I  don’t think there is anything anyone  can do  but I thought that I would write this.
**In the past, I told him about my brother and his ex-wife.  She was manic  depressive.  After 8 years of marriage (and horrendous ordeals) he divorced her because she threatened his life in an argument.  I told this to my son.  What's a parent to do?  He's a man.  We all have our walks in life.  Hopefully his and Gabby's will be safe ones.  **I have to say - it's about 20% of the time there is an issue.  His father has talked with him.  I guess it's up to him.

Gossamer

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Re: 20 yr old son deeply involved with 19 yr old bipolar
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2007, 07:59:35 PM »
You are doing the best you can. By listening,  trying to talk with them, doing  what you can.  ***Most people need to find out and make decisions for themselves.  One of my best friends was engaged to a manipulative man.  After dating  for 6 months, he moved into her home  - packed up all her belongings  and put them in boxes in her garage.  He filled her home with his things.  She apparently had no taste.  Also, according to him, she no longer "knew" how to dress.  He manipulated her every move.  She knew this wasn't  right but she got "stuck".  One  evening,  he took her to meet a very old friend of hers. A woman that he had been engaged to.  They were having a lovely evening.  My friend's fiancee' excused himself to use the bathroom.  When he left the room, the woman turned to my friend and said "Run! Run for your life."
When he came back into the room, she acted like  nothing had happened.  All smiles.  Did she listen?  No.  They married.  Two years later, when they divorced, she had to rediscover herself. In matters of the heart,  people  have to find  out for themselves.  God bless them and you.

Hopalong

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Re: 20 yr old son deeply involved with 19 yr old bipolar
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2007, 10:57:04 PM »
Hello, 3 Angels, Gossamer.

Welcome to you both.

It's odd timing because I just got off the phone with an old friend whose marriage of 35 years is over. I love them both but I identify more with him...her rage issues scare me. Turns out the police have been called twice, she's gone after him even with a knife and the scenes sound ghastly. I am very sad for all of them, especially their daughter, whose birth I attended...

Thinking about them makes me think that opposites attract and then you pay a high price. She did need someone mellow but also someone who would set stronger boundaries than he knew how to. It just reached its breaking point for him when their child left for grad school, but I have known them well for a very long time, and I imagine it has been building for many years.

Rage like Gabby's is something some very strong wise and well-trained people can be around and not be damaged by. I can't. So I don't know what the answer is about yoru son but I actually think you can tell him once, from the bottom of your heart, that you believe a marriage under these circumstances would have a very poor chance of surviving. And then let go...

How hard it must be to watch him risk more than he knows. But you're right, he's walking his own patch now.

Hopalong
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seastorm

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Re: 20 yr old son deeply involved with 19 yr old bipolar
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2007, 02:42:14 AM »
I think it is important for couples to work out there problems between themselves. This young couple has everyone but the cat involved. Everyone is buying into the drama which is huge. This is not helpful.  There is a lot of blaming going on and people trying to decide who is the good guy and who is the bad guy.  Boundaries are haywire.

It would be interesting if the mother of the son said to him, " You need to work this out with your partner because discussing it with me is a violation of the confdence your partner has in you.  You also need to seek professional help through mental health because I am not knowledgeable about Manic Depressive Disorder". I don't think the son should be getting his mom involved in such a toxic triangle.

Mom is very concerned and has little confidence in her son's ability to assess the situation and deal with it.  I am wondering how this is affecting mom. That is the issue here.

Sea storm
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DreamSinger

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Re: 20 yr old son deeply involved with 19 yr old bipolar
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2007, 09:24:41 AM »
I agree couples do need to work things out for themselves, but I also think when you are in a relationship that is parent and child, other factors are brought into play. Hi, 3Angels. My heart goes out to you. I can see you are concerned, and understandably so. If you see your child driving off a cliff, it's hard to say, "Well, they'll just have to learn". There's a responsibility to say what you see and what you feel and believe - this is what good friends do for one another, and I don't see where being a parent means doing any less - while also being aware that you can't jump in the car and take the wheel yourself.

It's so hard to watch your child in a destructive relationship, and this is a very dangerous situation. Not only in the harm his bipolar girlfriend can do to him personally, but what could happen to him through the legal process if he should be accused of physical abuse - especially by a petite 5 foot girl. It's good that so far she has told the truth to the police, except for her physical rages, and that could possibly be a problem later down the line.

I don't believe it's a matter of having confidence or not having confidence in your child. It's a matter of seeing a potentially dangerous situation beyond what has already occurred. Information is very important. You can't force it on another, but you can let them know it is available. You can let your son know you're here for him, as it sounds that you have. And you can give yourself the support you need. That's what this community is for. Thank goodness for those of us who have found this place and no longer have to figure things out totally on our own. This kind of behavior is so crazy-making and it's so easy to get sucked up into it and blinded to behavior that every one else can see, that it really helps to have someone else bring to light the whirlpool of dysfunction that's pulling us under. I doubt that I would have ever figured it out myself. I needed someone else to help me connect the dots, but I, also, needed to be willing to see the picture that unfolded before me.

No one can make you see. You can't make your son see, and since he won't discuss it with you, all you can do is decide what kind of boundaries you want in your own home. I find it alarming she has gone off her meds. It's totally within your right to tell your son, based on her history, you are concerned over your own personal safety and the safety of your home, and you can state she is not allowed in your home under those circumstances. You have to decide what is best for you. While you can't make decisions for your son, you can make them for yourself.

You can, also, periodically remind your son, that you are here for him to talk to - not as a professional, but as a mom. It sounds like this is what you are doing. You can point him in the right professional direction if he is interested, but it doesn't stop there. Parents don't stop being parents just because a child reaches a certain age. Certainly the dynamics and rules of relating change, but the relationship does not. Parents can and should be valuable resources for their family for the rest of their lives. We've replaced parents and elders with experts and professionals, and in my opinion, that's part of the reason for rampant ageism in our culture and disregard of the older ones...but that's another rant.

And when you've done what you can, then step back and let yourself be nurtured in your own faith, however that may be for you, and trust the process. It's a dance - to take action and to let go, and it's normal to trip over your own feet a few times.

Keeping you in my thoughts.


Brigid

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Re: 20 yr old son deeply involved with 19 yr old bipolar
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2007, 09:51:07 AM »
3Angels,
Welcome.  I'm sorry for what you are dealing with.  I have a 22-year-old son, and it would be incredibly painful for me to see him in that situation.  I have 2 people who are very close to me who have had or are currently dealing with bi-polar family members.  My bf's ex wife is bp, and he never knew what might happen from day to day.  After 4 children, many horrific fights (including his being stabbed with a knife), many hours of therapy, and moving in and out, he finally threw in the towel and filed for divorce.  He tried to keep it together for the children, but the fighting was worse for them to experience than his leaving.

One of my best friends has a DIL who was diagnosed as BP in her early 20's.  After 7 years of marriage and 2 adorable little girls, her DIL is completely out of control and my friend is constantly being pulled into the drama, mainly to help protect her granddaughters. 

I would strongly advise your son to see if he can find a support group in your area for people with BP or those who love and live with them.  My friend found it very helpful to understand the disorder and try to be more supportive of her DIL's manic periods.  Your son needs to understand what he could be facing in the future if he were to have a life with this girl.  She needs to understand how important her medication is to the proper functioning of her life.  The denial by her family will certainly not help the situation.

I know there are several people on this site who live with this disorder and can address it personally.   I'm sure they can provide more direct experience and help.

Brigid
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 12:01:02 PM by Brigid »

Leah

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Re: 20 yr old son deeply involved with 19 yr old bipolar
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2007, 10:45:50 AM »
If she has picked up a knife once, she will most likely do it again, and in a state of "mania" any worst case scenario could occur. 

Herein is real evidence of domestic violence warning "signals" and "red flags".

Your Son, I consider, needs to be presented with the factual information (freely obtainable to print off the internet) so as to enable himself, to read the facts, for himself, and thereby make an informed decision, as to whether he wants to continue or cease, with this toxic, abusive, violent, and potentially lethal relationship.

If the girlfriend is obsessed with your son, then she has hooked into his Psyche, hence, his foggy thinking and seemingly blinded actions of remaining with his girlfriend.  Blinded and cannot see.  Could be mutual obsession.

Should your son decide, at some point, to cease the relationship, "no contact" is considered to be the best option for future safety and well being.

My heart goes out to you 3Angels, as a Mother, whose heart is filled with love for her Son.

Please keep in touch with us here on the board, where you can be assured of support and a listening ear.

Leah xx


Quote

That time - the DA determined she was the aggressor - and ordered her to stay away from my son for 2 years.  Of course they don't listen.  The police were called 2 weeks ago. When she gets MANIC - she goes after my son.  He has to push her out of his way and flee.  He does not want to be accused of abuse when he is only trying to protect himself or get away from her.


Enmeshed in an obsessive drama.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 03:09:10 PM by LeahsRainbow »
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Hopalong

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Re: 20 yr old son deeply involved with 19 yr old bipolar
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2007, 12:42:55 PM »
CB...you are extremely wise. I wonder if I'd had six kids instead of one, if I'd be half as wise and effective a parent as you are. I really admire this (substituted a blank because it seems universal):

Quote
If you nag at him and argue about what he should be doing, he can focus on you and your nagging as the problem instead of focusing on him and his [fill in the blank].  That's perfect for his dysfunction and you can unwittingly feed it. 


Thanks for this. I wish it had been tattooed on my forehead long ago.

I hope it helps you too, 3Angels.

Hopalong
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Re: 20 yr old son deeply involved with 19 yr old bipolar
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2007, 01:46:49 PM »
Separate the two issues first: violence and bipolar.
There are at least two of us ( I am one ) here in this community with severe bipolar who have never commited violent acts, like most people with severe mental illness.

That is a fundamental attitude shift someone who has been violent in response to their mood swings ( or anything else frankly ) needs to make if they wish to stop themselves behaving violently and take responsibility for their behaviour. Faulty thinking causes repeated acts of aggression, not a momentary imbalance. Lundy Bancroft's book on domestic violence ( Why does he do that? Inside the minds of angry and aggressive men ) outlines from a male aggressor's perspective the causes of violence and the myths and stereotypes which support and socially sustain it too.

Bipolar does make people argumentative and irritable- partially because of what Fast and Preston call 'the bipolar conversation' ie. the other person does not differentiate when they are talking to the illness rather than the person, or when the illness is taking over what is going on. Their book 'Loving Someone With Bipolar Disorder' has loads of coping strategies for a person with bipolar and the people around them.

Reading that is a good place for your son to start if he is serious about making a life with or befriending this lady.

I would see it as a positive attribute of the kid you raised that he cares and is willing to undertake some self-sacrifice for this difficult relationship; he's young yet and doesn't have a wider perspective on that but still, how often do we hear parents complaining their children have grown up totally selfish and lacking empathy? All parents worry about their kids' mistakes and wish they could save them some heartache, but you're right, it's his path.

CB is right too- back off and support at a distance, or he'll lock in harder thinking he should be making decisions for himself....


Stormchild

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Re: 20 yr old son deeply involved with 19 yr old bipolar
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2007, 09:09:19 PM »
This sounds more borderline than bipolar. Does this young lady cut herself, or anything like that? I know more than one bipolar person in realspace, and none of them act out violently against others in the way being described here.

It's not at all uncommon with borderline PD, though, when that disorder is severe, unrecognized, untreated. Here is a search on the term 'borderline rage'... you'll see what I mean.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=borderline+rage&btnG=Google+Search
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 09:29:00 PM by Stormchild »
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