Author Topic: Henchmen?  (Read 2495 times)

gratitude28

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Henchmen?
« on: March 21, 2007, 10:09:16 PM »
Quite a while back  in the middle of a post, one of our esteemed members mentioned disgust at the "henchmen" of the N. This has tossed about in my head for all that time and I was wondering if someone would like to clarify or explain who you perceive to fit this role. I have my own ideas, but would like to read yours first.
Love, Beth
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Leah

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Re: Henchmen?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2007, 10:28:55 PM »


Henchmen are in attendance, in this case to an N person.

Henchmen could be set-up by the N in the role of;

Messenger, Whisperer, Provoker ............ and so on.

Basically, Henchmen are manipulated to do the dirty work - for the innocent N.

Is that what you mean Beth?

Leah

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Stormchild

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Re: Henchmen?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2007, 10:35:40 PM »
Hi beth

What's the context? Do you have a link to the post that stimulated your thoughts?

Sorry; I'm not trying to be a pain, just trying to get a sense of whether we're talking about:

deliberate co-conspirators,

enablers who are basically clueless,

or folks who have no moral courage - they see and understand the whole awful mess, but they will go along - to get along - with just about anything, in order to stay on a bully's 'good' side.
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spyralle

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Re: Henchmen?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2007, 06:53:59 AM »
Hi all

My friends husband is an N and he has drawn in the 12 year old daughter I think as one of his henchmen...  I am just guessing this after reading this post but it makes sense.  She comes back from a visit with him and is very irritable and provocative...  She has no respect for her mum..  On mothers day she would not make her mum a cup of tea in the morning..(It was also her mum's birthday)  Mum found some messages to the N on her phone saying things like mum was rude about you..  mum doesn't trust me...  basically conspiring with him.. 

When he comes round to the house they close the bedroom door and whisper together..  It is breaking her heart..  How the hell do you deal with that???

Spyralle x

Leah

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Re: Henchmen?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2007, 07:16:07 AM »
Question

Why do his victims feel they are turning into narcissists themselves?

Answer

Narcissism is contagious. The narcissism creates a "bubble universe", similar to a cult. In this bubble, special rules apply.

These rules do not always correspond to outer reality.

Using complex defence mechanisms, such as projective identification, the narcissist forces his victims - spouse, mate, friend, colleague - to "play a role" assigned to him by "G-d" - the Narcissist.

The narcissist rewards compliance with his script and punishes any deviation from it with severe abuse.

In other words, the narcissist CONDITIONS people around him using intimidation, positive and negative reinforcements and feedback, ambient abuse ("gaslighting"), covert, or controlling abuse, and overt, classical abuse.

Thus conditioned, the narcissist's victims gradually come to assimilate the narcissist's way of thinking (follies a-deux) [sic] and his modus operandi - his methods.

You can abandon the narcissist - but the narcissist never abandons you.  He is there, deep inside your traumatic memories, lurking, waiting to act out.

You have been modified, very much like an alien snatching bodies.



engaged as the N's Henchmen ???


« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 07:25:14 AM by LeahsRainbow »
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gratitude28

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Re: Henchmen?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2007, 10:15:19 PM »
Thank you all very much for this input and these ideas. I think that ALL of these were what I was thinking about, but I didn't realize that there was more than one kind.

I can't help but wonder, why do people allow the Ns to go on as they are? This is the reason they go on and on acting selfishly... they are allowed to.

Styill would love to hear more on this.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

reallyME

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Re: Henchmen?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2007, 11:00:49 AM »
Quote
I can't help but wonder, why do people allow the Ns to go on as they are? This is the reason they go on and on acting selfishly... they are allowed to.

Interesting Question here, Beth

First I'd like to share what the "henchman" thing was in my own situation.

There were people in my life who were Narcissistic, and they would basically use other people to get information from me and then bring it back to them.  They would also use the internet, to get their "henchman" to say certain things to me, get me to react, and then report back to the N person, so the N could then justify (to himself or others), deserting me in the relationship.  It's an underhanded way of the N justifying the mistreatment and abandonning behaviors he/she uses on you.

Secondly, why do people LET the N go on...

actually, some people try to STOP the N from doing what he/she does.  The thing is, Narcissistic people are very CRAFTY and CALCULATING individuals.  A lot of them have even studied psychopathic behavior, in order to perfect their own deceit and dupe others.

There really IS no stopping N's from acting N'istically.  It's what they do, who they are, unfortunately, unless GOD gets ahold of them.  Unless their self-masking came as a result of trauma, they learned as children, either:

 A.)  I must be the BEST in order for my parents and others to love me

This usually is a result of pompous, self-centered "parents" wanting to LOOK GOOD to others at all times, so their own insecurities aren't triggered.  Usually these types of "parents" see the child as a REFLECTION of themselves or an EXTENSION of themselves, rather than allowing them to be an INDIVIDUAL.



  B.)  I WILL be ADORED by everyone in my life (as long as I continue to not show any flaws or humanness on the outside...I must have ALL THE ANSWERS AT ALL TIMES)

This comes from a false notion that, because they were told that they were WONDERFUL, the STAR CHILD, and usually SPOILED ROTTEN, that everyone in life is put here to GIVE THEM WHATEVER THEY WANT.  It is a sense of ENTITLEMENT.  There is an underlying feeling of "why would you NOT do that for me, how DARE YOU?!"

There is also this attitude of SUPERIORITY in which they "know" that they have the right answers for you, and how could you DOUBT them?"  (after all, they've had to be "little adults" for their "parents" all their life.  Now, THEY get to play PARENT and TEACHER to YOU.)


  C.) In order to feel relief from the shame and guilt inside of me, I have to PORTRAY the image of TOTAL STRENGTH AND POWER, no matter WHO I have to walk on to do this!

Many times the child-N in training, was made to feel ASHAMED if they made a mistake.  GUILT was the force their "parents' used on them, to get them to become totally COMPLIANT and machine-like.  These children learned how to ignore and stuff their feelings of shame and guilt, so on the outside, they appear to be able to hurt others in many ways, but feel NOTHING in their conscience.  They are like crabs, clawing their way to the top of a container, stepping on other crabs to get there...although, once someone is "wined and dined" by the N enough, they often will simply help the "king or queen crab" out of the container, and then dump the other crabs onto dry land to ROT, while the rescuer (henchman) and the N, watch the crabs struggle and DIE.

Just my own point of view from experience

~Laura

JayBailey

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Re: Henchmen?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2007, 05:23:13 PM »
Hi Beth,

When I read about this I think two thngs...

Firstly, that those who are aiding the N person in this way are often doing it quite unwittingly, simply because the N person can be so charming to some people while they're behaving appallingly to others...the other person can be so taken in that they see the N's victim as the person who's in the wrong.

The other is that I've found personally that some of the people I thought were acting as 'henchmen' to the N weren't at all!  It's the old triangulation thing...the 'X said so-and-so about you...' X may not have said it at all, but you end up hating X when it's actually N making trouble.

The usual N craziness in other words...nothing ever as straightforward as it seems.

 

gratitude28

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Re: Henchmen?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2007, 07:56:46 PM »
Laura,
What an answer. And OUCH, it hurts. You are so right. I always feel I am coming to grips with this, and then something hits home and reminds me of the truth. Your post is too true and really hurts. It makes me sick too. How can a person think like that???? I am tired of being the object of hatred and jealousy and spite.

Jay,
I think you are right on as well. I think they have convinced some that I am "superior acting" in some way and/or cold. And since I am not around to defend myself, people who don't know me would tend to believe it when presented with the histrionics and gossipy tales.

Thanks... More truth I need to accept.
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Stormchild

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Re: Henchmen?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2007, 08:50:38 PM »
Hi Beth

With regard to backstabbing Ns and their 'henchpersons' --

Just remember - anyone who is eager to believe negative things about you, when they haven't seen you do them and you aren't there to defend yourself, is probably untrustworthy whether or not you are physically present.

People have multiple options when they are listening to someone stab an absent third party in the back.

They don't have to take it as gospel. They can look to see how much malice the speaker is displaying and how much pleasure the speaker is deriving from their backstabbing.

The more a person enjoys spreading malicious stories about others behind their backs, the more likely it is that the true malefactor is the one doing the story-spreading.

Note: that business of enjoying the malice is very important.

Someone venting about an abuser rarely appears to be enjoying themselves. It's more like catharsis, like ridding themselves of poison. They may be relieved afterwards, but they're not going to be glowing with satisfaction.

A committed and dedicated pot-stirrer, though, may relish tale-bearing so much that you can almost hear them smacking their lips.

Now, a really clever and devious N will be a better actor than this - but that's the exception rather than the rule. It's usually pretty obvious that they're enjoying themselves, and that is the giveaway.

It's really strange how many times people hearing malicious gossip will see the gossiper obviously enjoys it, and yet they swallow the story whole, without ever questioning - let alone understanding - what that enjoyment really means.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2007, 08:55:42 PM by Stormchild »
The only way out is through, and the only way to win is not to play.

"... truth is all I can stand to live with." -- Moonlight52

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Leah

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Re: Henchmen?
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2007, 06:30:19 AM »

It's really strange how many times people hearing malicious gossip will see the gossiper obviously enjoys it, and yet they swallow the story whole, without ever questioning - let alone understanding - what that enjoyment really means.


Because they too, are receiving enjoyment - like minded ?
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gratitude28

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Re: Henchmen?
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2007, 07:09:00 AM »
((((((((((((((Leah))))))))))))))))

No one deserves to be treated that way.

I too am struggling with knowing people don't see what I know.

Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

Leah

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Re: Henchmen?
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2007, 08:06:28 PM »


Inflicting damage through using other people

http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=4364.0
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

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