Author Topic: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom  (Read 11001 times)

lynn

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Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2004, 09:52:50 AM »
Whoops, I hit submit instead of preview...

write, I want to thank you for your helpful advice.  At the core of things, it is likely a self-love issue that trips me up.  Your suggestions are so pleasant and kind and nice, I will continue to try to incorporate them into my life.  

Quote from: write
You will discover that, the more you love yourself, the more you will be able to give love to others - and the more others will want to be around you and give back to you.


It's hard for me to have faith that this is true.  But I'm sure gonna try.


lynn

bunny

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2004, 02:14:23 PM »
Quote from: Portia
1. Death: I’m going to die


Big problem for me. I'm not into death at all!!


Quote from: Portia
2. Isolation: I’m utterly alone in my head


Not a prob. I keep myself entertained all the time.


Quote from: Portia
3. Meaningless: Life is meaningless


Life is entertaining, even if meaningless, so no problem.


Quote from: Portia
4. Freedom: I have the freedom to do whatever I am able to do


Major problem, since I feel incredibly guilty and obligated all the time!!

bunny

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Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2004, 05:16:53 PM »
Post deleted by Richard Grossman--see next post.

Dr. Richard Grossman

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« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2004, 05:33:54 PM »
Guest user,

If you have something to say, say it.  Otherwise I will delete your post.

Richard

Nikole

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Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2004, 10:34:17 AM »
Portia, what a great topic. Thanks for sharing.  

To answer your questions:
 
Death... No. I am not afraid that the grim reaper is going to pop out from under my bed and get take me to the fiery depths of the underworld. I have no doubts or regrets on any of the decisions that I have made up to this point in my life. Nonetheless, I feel that I have lived life to the best of my ability, and if I died tomorrow, I know that I have lived a full life. Death is a part of life, and when my time comes, it comes.
 
Isolation... No. Personally, I thrive on isolation. I can never get enough of it. When I am isolated, it is the time when I am most content.  It is odd because I identify myself as an introvert, but if you ask anyone who "knows" me or meets me for the first time they would swear that I am an extrovert. At the core, I am an introvert...an introvert who has developed extroverted tendencies.
 
Meaningless... No. Life can be meaningful just as easily it can be meaningless, it is just a matter of how one approaches life. I am one who approaches life head-on. Whatever life hands me, I throw it right back into life’s face.
 
Freedom... Yes. My big issue is situated in having my freedom taken away from me. When it comes to me, I have to always be in control, no matter the situation, I always have to have the upper hand.  Subsequently, it all boils down to me having to have control. In control of my mind, myself, my choices, my life... If my freedom was taken away from me, I honestly cannot decipher what I would do or how I would cope. My independence is such a prevailing component in my life, without my independence I would be nothing and be nowhere.  

Nikole

condeezi

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2006, 06:33:47 PM »
i think they all tie in together somehow - death is frightening because i am afraid of being alone at that time (isolation) and that my life will have been meaningless because i died alone. and freedom?  ha - how can you experience freedom when you are so afraid and isolated.  i am trying to be somewhat funny with that last bit - but does anyone agree?

moonlight52

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2006, 09:40:44 PM »
PORTIA and ALL


Death
I really am not afraid of death its the cycle of life I was with my sweet mom when she passed I am not afraid. 8)

Isolation There is a plus to my being bipolar the veil or membrane between my mind and the world is thin I seem to have little distintion between "out there" and" in here".
I do not feel isolated.I have no trouble being by myself..............I do not know if this is bad or good or neither???????

Meaning Here is where I love to go on my head trip tripping around but in the end logic is not the highest form of thinking and what I shoot for in meditation are those little blank spaces of no-thought.Thinking thru one's heart Heartsmarts  :D

Freedom I did not know what it was before this summer I got it now along with freedom comes responsibility.
Also a freedom of being I am just now "seeing" the vastness   :?

I need to move to the other computer my daughter is kicking me off !  :shock:

moon


« Last Edit: October 23, 2006, 11:09:39 PM by moonlight »

penelope

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2006, 10:15:09 PM »
wow, this post is a dinosaur...

but a good find condeezi :)

Yes, I agree.  I'm struggling the most with freedom, myself.  So many people seem to have limited me throughout my life, my Ns in particular...  I'd say that I am only now starting to experience real freedom.  But it has come only through painful change and recognizing I do have limitations..even if self placed.  weird how that works.  Can you expound on why this strikes you as funny condee?  Is there a particular event that came to mind as you read this?  What feelings has it brought up for you (recognizing that all feelings are OK, of course)?  If you care to share them.

hi moon -  how much freedom can you have when your daughter kicks you off your own computer?  :wink:

p bean


moonlight52

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2006, 10:34:18 PM »
Hey now pbean,

Its OK she had to get stuff for homework so it was for the greater good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:


I really do feel good she "let" me finish my post .
I am still taller by an inch I wonder how long that will last?Tee Hee

She's funny and I am still just cool enough to crack her up sometimes.

Fourteen is such a cool age . 8)

Love to you

moon

gratitude28

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2006, 08:14:25 PM »
Death and Isolation make me just about hyperventilate. I am OK with death if I live day-to-day. Part of my drinking was "just to get it over with." I know that sounds crazy, but I was so scared of it I decided to head into it...
Again, that is from my childhood. My grandmother scared the crap out of me as a kid telling me about how I would die...
Isolation scares me every time I start to think about the fact that I am alone, really. I do realize that there is NO ONE who knows all my thoughts and feelings. This deployment has been hard for me because I realized that I want/need/like to have my husband in my life and I don't like being dependent upon anyone... I realize that I don't NEED him, but I do... to make me happy. Gosh, 14 years and his dumb statements about how we will be all saggy together sitting on a beach somewhere and I still don't trust him!!!!!
Thanks for a difficult subject, Portia. It is something I need to face...
Love, Beth
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable." Douglas Adams

WRITE

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2006, 12:20:18 AM »
wow, to think we were all posting a couple of years and more....how time passes. So much has happened to us all in that time.

Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom:

I was exposed to too much death as a child and it frightened me for a long time, especially as I don't believe in a physical 'heaven'. Then I internalised a lot of pantheist poems, and felt it would all be okay somehow I don't know yet.

I sometimes feel isolated, but I also don't like someone in my space all the time...now I'm getting used to it I like living alone.

It's been a good life creating meaningful work and relationships. And I see it as fluid, I can keep changing ( growing! ) forever....there's never a time I will have experienced everything....

Freedom, that's a mixed one. We all need 'grounding' somewhere. Responsibility is good for that. But I hate feeling trapped, I couldn't wait to grow up and make my own decisions, and I really enjoy my agency in the world.

I guess my biggest 'therapy' fears are irrational now: that I am unloveable/unacceptable and that I will die from painful experiences, they go back to my earliest days with my mother before I even have proper memories. My earliest memories I was frightened, and I've done lots of things over the years to ameliorate those fears, it was only therapy which put them in context but they still come out like tonight when I am feeling ill and a little afraid for the future.

They don't affect my decisions or behaviour though. I guess I may always have some residue of the anxiety, it's also a part of the bipolar, agitation.




Portia

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2006, 05:09:55 AM »
Yes this is an old thread! I think I sound different now.

Condeezi :D

I’ve thought about death a lot, from when I was very young, and rather intensively recently. I’ve read about what happens when you die from say, starvation, how the body slowly shuts down and what causes eventual death is the lack of energy to take a breath. The action of breathing requires too much effort. By that stage the body has gone through so many changes, shutting down vital organs one by one, that I wonder if the brain is aware at all of what is happening.

I fear suffering, but not the moment of dying. The alternative is to live forever and I would find that idea far more frightening than having a limited life-span.

With children and grandchildren, it’s unlikely that you’ll die alone? I think I might die alone and I suppose I’ve been mentally preparing for that, imagining how etc. I refuse to be afraid of these things now and thinking about certain things, thinking about the real practicalities, helps remove the fear. Fear generally is of the unknown, so I try and make it known, whatever it is.

We’re all isolated (inside our own heads) but we’re all the same in that respect. I think we create meaning by our relationships with each other, with animals, with the physical world. We have the freedom to choose who and what we make relationships with; we choose every moment what we do, how we relate, connect, and that is freedom!

Losing the fears is the key to losing the other negative thoughts and feelings. So what is frightening about being alone when you die? What are the real fears in there?


Moon

the veil or membrane between my mind and the world is thin I seem to have little distintion between "out there" and" in here".

Not sure if this is due to BP or due to an enhanced awareness of how things are interconnected. :D

I do not feel isolated.I have no trouble being by myself..............I do not know if this is bad or good or neither???????
It’s what you want it to be!

what I shoot for in meditation are those little blank spaces of no-thought

Are you aware of ‘time’ in those spaces? I feel most aware of ‘time’ (of being alive?) when I’m most still. Usually outside, usually at night. The world is and there’s a beating heart.

along with freedom comes responsibility.

Everything is balance!  8)


Beth

I’ve asked about your grandmother and death elsewhere but if you want to talk here…

Trust – huge issue! How do we ever get to trust other people and their intentions? By strengthening ourselves / selves and trusting ourselves more and more: when we intimately know and trust our own intentions, then we can trust our judgement of others. Strangely enough, as I come to trust myself more, I expect less from others and therefore find…I don’t need to trust them as such. I sort of accept them for whatever they do and align my own actions accordingly. 100% trust of another person is pretty impossible I think: what if they have a brain injury and change? What if they unknowingly take some psychoactive drug and behave totally differently, where is the trust in ‘them’ then? Everything shifts and changes all the time so trusting ourselves is paramount; even as we continue to shift and change…..what don’t you trust about your relationship with your H?

Or is because you feel that you need him, that you invest so much of your happiness in him, that this makes you vulnerable / exposed and you don’t like that lack of control? He is in control of your happiness?


Write

something strikes me: you have the gift of a healthy 10 year old child and yet you say you live alone! You have a child who will most probably be at your side when you die, isn’t that important, a comfort?

Portia

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2006, 08:25:32 AM »
More on death :D. Here’s a link to an article on death, how we view it, and an excerpt below. Click here http://www.dorothyrowe.com.au/setup.htm and then from: left menu  select Recent Articles, Information Exchange, What Death Means To Us.

Excerpt:

Throughout our childhood we are constantly being told that we are not good enough. We are punished for our wickedness and exhorted to be good. We enter adult life with the constant worry, "Am I good enough?"

By ‘good’ we can mean many things, not just the usual virtues of honesty, truthfulness, generosity and so on, but the qualities which earn other people’s attention and admiration, such as being successful or being attractive or loveable. We each plan our lives in terms of how we define ‘good’ and ‘death’. As adults we can be so busy living our lives that we never make conscious, much less critically review, the meanings we have given to ‘good’ and ‘death’. We tell ourselves that where death is concerned we are the exception. Then one day we discover there are no exceptions. Threatened with death, we review our life.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2006, 08:27:35 AM by Portia »

penelope

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2006, 09:50:45 AM »
Quote
The alternative is to live forever and I would find that idea far more frightening than having a limited life-span

I have never thought of this P - you're right.  Terrifying!!

bean

Portia

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Re: Death Isolation Meaningless Freedom
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2006, 09:57:10 AM »
Yeah :D it's the thought of having to work forever..... :P :roll: