The N meets Clint Eastwood

[tokyojim2001]

I have a "friend" who is a severe N.  I would like to relate a story that you may find amusing and provides some insight into the N way of thinking.

Years ago, we had a mutual acquaintence (a normal person) who moved to California, near Hollywood.  On a visit back east, he casually mentioned to the N that he met Clint Eastwood.  He was an outgoing and friendly person, so this certainly meant that he just saw Clint, shook his hand and told him he liked his movies or something like that.  That was all.  In addition, he told the N (and me) to come visit him if we were ever in CA.

But the story slowly changed at the hands of the N.  Next, the friend must have known Clint quite well.  Next, he undoubtedly went to parties and events with Clint.  Next, if he visited this person in hollywood, he would be introduced to Clint, and Clint would certainly like his personality.  He would therefore be invited by Clint to many places and meet celebrities and go to parties, etc.  He spoke as if all this were actually happening!

In addition, when he would reach the peaks of his fantasies, he would begin subtle put-downs to me: "You should come out there and visit me when I go.  Oh, but you are too busy with your job.  That is too bad.  You need to meet interesting people," etc......

I was both annoyed but also fascinated by this convoluted and grandiose thinking....  I would be pissed off, but also look at him like Spock out of Star Trek and think, "fascinating!"

[Portia]

....

[tokyojim2001]

I think that the reason the Ns refer to "interesting people" is pretty straightforward.  When they talk about them, they are making a self-reference.  If they feel that they know about IPs, they are therefore, by some kind of default, one of them.  At the same time, the listener is put down and the N maintains a position of authority and importance.

What I find incredible is their projection and inability to laugh at themselves.  A number of years ago, this N told me that I obviously needed to leave my wife, get a better job, and move to an interesting place.  In fact, I was very happily married, really liked my job, and lived in Vienna, Austria!  The reality was that he was living with his nagging mother in a multifamily house and hated maintaining the apartments.....

I am usually patient, but remember once when I lost it.  I had the following conversation with the N:

Me: "I may teach Psychology 101 at a local community college and would like your help to explain something."

N: "What is that?"

Me: "The concept of projection is sometimes hard for the students to understand.  However, if they see you in action, they will certainly know a lot about it."

N: (Silence)

He did not talk with me for at least 3 weeks after that....

[Portia]

Goodness you have the type of cold cruelty it is difficult not to admire! (Is it the result of years of N-study?)

But if that is you 'losing it', don't you ever get angry and emotional (shout, walk off)?

And yes of course, Ns have no real sense of empathic humour. It must depend on IQ level, sometimes the lack of humour can be cleverly hidden can't it, especially in the work-place? Do you agree?

[tokyojim2001]

You are right.  Thanks.  That "cold curelty" manifests itself in me only very, very rarely.  It happens when I am very angry.  It comes out with the N sometimes.  In that instance, I reached one of my breaking points with the N.  I knew that he would not want to speak with me, and was really glad for that.

I have not been a victim of an N in the sense of being married, in a business relationship or having one as a parent.  This N is just a "friend" who does not even live in the same state.  Yet, I have been so angered that I once even had government people after him and he left the country for a short time.  I assure you that I am not a violent or spiteful person.  Only one N, just as a high school "friend" ever brought this out.  I cannot imagine having a parent or spouse as one.  I would like to help in any small way I can.

The N is very good at hiding a lack of a sense of humor when needed.  It usually is by cracking nasty jokes at which only the N laughs.

[Portia]

I have been so angered that I once even had government people after him and he left the country for a short time

Wow! Either he did something really bad, or you are/were very powerful at the time. ??

And

cracking nasty jokes at which only the N laughs

I’ve seen this in action. Or just really bad jokes at work and all the sycophantic minions are forced to laugh, the most sycophantic laughing the loudest. I had a boss who seeing that I (female) was chairing a meeting of about 8 men decided to ‘pop in’ and tell a 10 minute very un-funny pornographic school-kid joke – knowing that one of the key men present could only spare the meeting 15 minutes. Silence followed his exit, followed by the most junior bloke saying “well I’ve never heard a director say so many taboo words in one go before!”. Was the boss trying to undermine me? Yes and I put up with it. No more.

[tokyojim2001]

Portia,

Yes, your supervisor's and mother's pattern of jokes seem familiar.  The N says "jokes" that are not funny, but just vulgar, nasty or insulting.  Then the N laughs.  And may repeat the jokes.  Most people simply are too kind-hearted to tell the N what they think, so they force some fake smiles and laughs.  And the N does not even seem to be aware of it.  He has received some attention, put people down, or felt some power, and that is enough.

I am not a powerful person when I was able to get government people after the N.  I was just very,very angry.

[Portia]

...but is it your responsibility (or right) to punish this N, or any other?

Would you like never to feel that kind of anger again?

[tokyojim2001]

Portia,

I did not think that in a forum such as this I would have to defend my thoughts and actions.  I did not think of "rights" or "responsibilities" when I was angry at the N and carried out some revenge.  I was 19.  It was not a philosophical or moral debate in my mind at all then.  I simply was writing about how angered I became at N behavior.

I do not want to become that angry again.  There are too many other interesting and fun things in life.  However, the very fact that I am coming to this forum means that the N has got to me again.  I am finding that this place enables me to distance myself from his despicable, foul and inhuman behavior.

[Portia]

Tokyojim:

I did not think that in a forum such as this I would have to defend my thoughts and actions.

Why not? This is a forum for voicelessness and emotional survival: we have wounded, raw people here. If you upset someone, you may have to defend yourself - I have!  

However, I’m not asking you to ‘defend’ your thoughts or actions about your N friend. I simply asked you questions. Like people do. For better understanding. I’m sorry I seem to have pushed a button there with you(?). I will not ask you to defend yourself! But I am probably known for constant questioning…and sometimes being a little provocative. If you’d rather I didn’t talk to you, that’s fine – I’ll leave you be . Let me know, please.
In the meantime….

I am finding that this place enables me to distance myself from his despicable, foul and inhuman behavior.

  Good! I think this is not just a place to let out anger (although it very much is a place to do that); it is also a good place to try to understand: what makes Ns like they are, how to deal with it, how to ‘cope’ and maybe even how to move on…how does all that sound? Are you looking for these things?

You have started a new thread called ‘Interesting people’ which, I think, is based upon my thoughts above. It would be very polite of you if you could credit people when you take their ideas; we generally like good manners I think and I know other boards aren’t like this – so I’m letting you know.

If other members here disagree with me, think I’m being too harsh or over-sensitive, please speak up now. I got into trouble in the past being too provocative: please don’t let me do it again. Thank you.   P

[Tokyojim]

Portia,

You seem to be open, so I can also say that you seem very judgmental.  I mean the nature of your comments and questions imply that you are putting a value - moral, ethical, and/or logical - on statements.  This is what I meant by not happening in this sort of forum.  That is, if people feel judged, they will probably censor their feelings and a lack of understanding will ensue.

I started the IP, not you.  I wrote the initial comment, and you responded.  It seemed that more people might be interested, so I set up that post.  Check if you do not believe.

Finally, you asked if I am looking for understanding, etc.  Again, this is the type of comment that implies judgment.  Unless I am a very paranoid person, I sensed that you REALLY wrote (Jim, it seems like you are just venting and not looking for understanding, etc.)  Again, look at my posts.  Many ask questions and have asked the readers for advice and have thanked them for advice.

[Portia]

You are factually incorrect. Actually your N friend started the IP idea in your first quote in this thread:

In addition, when he would reach the peaks of his fantasies, he would begin subtle put-downs to me: "You should come out there and visit me when I go. Oh, but you are too busy with your job. That is too bad. You need to meet interesting people," etc......

I picked the idea up. Your friend gets the credit for saying that if he did. You get the credit for repeating it. I get some credit for expanding on it above (if we're all counting credits here). I just wanted you to acknowledge my input and not damn well ignore me.  

PS

It seemed that more people might be interested

Evidence? If they were interested, they would have joined this thread surely? You're fabricating this idea to justify your new thread.

[Tokyojim]

Portia,

Forget it!

I would not like to imagine having a conversation with YOU.  (Circular and endless and..... leading nowhere)

Please do not write to me or respond to my posts.

Thank you.