A Story and a Few Words of Encouragement

[rosencrantz]

I can't believe I said that!
R

[longtimelurker]

After all the efforts you have made to show how "considerate" you are, Rosencratz, it is interesting that you are not above being personally insulting.

Calling someone stupid. - is that the forum equivalent of verbal abuse? Demeaning and belittling them too:-

(Good grief - you've come back every hour to post - have you been missing me? Are you trying to taunt me into giving you something else to vent about??? )

the last sentence of your quote above looks a little like projection to me.

Sarcasm too. Or will you deny that?

Very appropriate for a forum on voicelessness.

You are certainly being hoisted by your own petard in this case.


And now I'm being insulting

Round and round the garden we go. Who will apply for the job of teddy bear?

[surf14]

Rosencrantz;
 
   Sorry but  I disagree with most of what you wrote here and  I don't connect all all with your perception that I had tried to smother you and put a blanket over you during pasts posts; I had felt I was very supportive.  Its interesting to note how people can so cleanly miss in their communications and perceptions.

I still feel strongly that a time-out when things become too intense  is a necessesity and that the 'safety ' of the board needs to be protected when things get out of  hand.  

Surf

[rosencrantz]

Hi longtime lurker.  Thanks for this.

Actually, I'm feeling quite cheerful.

Nobody said I had to be 'good' all the time.  Lots of other people aren't being very adult.  Why is it always OK for other people to attack and hurt me but never OK for me to defend myself???  I always had to be the adult for my mother - understanding, controlled - because she was always out of control.  I was never the child.  I'd be so much happier if I could be childish occasionally.  Not venomous like some are being but just fun and childlike.

I think I already acknowledged I had been less than my usual reserved self in my last post ("I can't believe I said that")

Thank you for noticing that I try to be considerate.  I wasn't aware that that's what I do.  Actually, it's not my motivation at all.  'Considerate'.  Hmm - no it's not my motivation.  But it sounds a nice thing to be. I'm glad it comes across that way.  Someone else said I was honest and compassionate.  Several other people whose opinions I trust have said the same thing so I guess they are accurate.  I'd say I was desperate for the truth and desperate for people to feel good about themselves but that the two were often in conflict and as a result I feel terrible most of the time.  

No, I don't think that last quote is projection.  I haven't posted three times in a row to the same person making personal and mean comments.

I don't mind you being insulting.  Thank you for putting words to what you are attempting to do. It saves me feeling confused.

I'm not quite sure what petard you think I've been hoisted on.  I think you might be revealing something you think about me rather than something I think about myself.

But thanks for the bait.  I enjoyed replying.

TTFN
R

[surf14]

P.S. Rosencrantz;

Once again in regards to your perception that I wanted to quiet your voice; actually your words were the ones on the board I turned to the most as I found some assist  and help from you in how to deal with my impossible mother.  Seemed like you understood the best.  And I appreciated that.  Whatever your perceptions are I wanted to commuicate that.  Have a good one and take it easy on yourself and others, OK?

Surf

[Confused71]

Hi,

I'm new here, and don't really know what's going on, but the feeling I get straightaway from reading this thread is that sometimes I think one can read too much into something that really isn't there.  Heck, I do that a lot myself.  I think that comes from being a sensitive soul, which is not a bad thing necessarily, but sometimes I think one can overanalyse things too much and see intent when there is none.  I've only been reading this board a short while and I feel that everyone here has a good heart, but I think there's a lot of misunderstanding going on from all directions.  Sometimes I think it's best to give one another breathing space, which is why I think it was probably sensible that Mr Grossman locked the threads when he did, and I don't believe there was any hidden agenda in that.  What I seem to see quite a bit of on this board is a lot of analysing of others sometimes, but not enough supporting.  Just my 2 cents.

[Anonymous]

To Rosencrantz,

Thankyou for recognising my motivation for posting and expressing your support of my right to post my concerns.

I'm sorry that you doing this has put you under attack. I hope you can walk away from his thread in tact. It's not worth it. RG can respond or not. That's fine I had my say.

If others here feel I don't have these rights, that's okay. I wasn't really interested in their opinions one way or the other. My post was directed to Richard Grossman anyway. I didn't really take too much notice or offence at the others who felt the need to defend his moves. I figure if he felt threatened or the ned to defend himself against little old me, he's big enough to do it himself.

I like this place, and will continue to pot and I'm trying very hard not to get into arguments with people or defend myself uselessly. Thanks everybody for your repsonses. Now back to what ails me.

Bye

Guest.

[Anonymous]

Good lord "concerned guest"...    you try running the board & let's see how you'd do!   Choices have to be made.   Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't is how it goes.  

I think Richard did the best thing in trying to bring back harmony to the group, and let me tell you, from what I've seen around here whenever I check-in, that is no small feat!  

There is always discord & it seems to be the same few people at the center of it.   I don't know if Richard can track IP numbers as part of the tech. setup of the board, but if it is possible, I'd be all for me banning the IP's of consistent trouble makers.

He did not create voicelessness by locking the post.   You are free as a bird to address any issues that this board was intended for.   As other's have said, that is, support & sharing regarding voicelessness and dealing with N's in our everyday lives.

Yes, disagreements occcur & it is sometimes best to let them be sorted through to the end, but the arguing that goes on here, & with the same people, is relentless, and that is the difference, and why it seems necessary to lock threads.

May I *gently* say, that it seems you have do have strong feelings regarding what you might deem an "authority figure".    Your language directed at Richard seemed really harsh & defensive.    This is not a criticism of you, only something you might want to consider.   Though, what will probably happen are scathing words directed back at me.

Richard is right, sometimes people are just not at a place where they can truly hear you, even if you are being kind, and have a reasonable point.

And R, you do often over-analyze and pick apart threads, to the detriment of the interaction.   I won't go back into a discussion of a thread that has been locked, but will say that you do *sometimes* (not always) over-complicate issues by nit picking them.  

You once asked me to take re-read my messages and try to imagine how they might make others feel.  You thought I might sound a little condescending.    Well, I kindly conceded to you (I am not interested in creating negativity here) & did so.   It made a difference.    

Might I suggest you do the same in terms of the over-analyzing & picking apart of other's messages?    When you do this, all perspective regarding the essential point of the person's message gets lost to you...



[/b][/i]

[topaz]

This is the same guest (I'll call myself topaz) as above.

Richard,

I found your story spiritual, beautiful, and also inspiring, as you intended it to be.

I am only sorry for the thoughtless and cold tone of remarks you received, mixed in with such a sacred topic to you...

Anyway, it didn't ruin the impact of the story for me...

Very sorry about your dog, but glad for the wonderful experience that you had, and how it helped you...

[Anonymous]

Round and round the garden we go. Who will apply for the job of teddy bear?

I thought this line was so funny Longtimelurker. Whether you meant it to be funny or not, it was. Thanks for the laugh.

Now to everybody else, can I also say please, that I accept responsibility for where this thread is going. I feel very very uncomfortable that Rosencrnatz seems to have become the focus of a lot of, what reads to me, to be misdirected hostility.

I addressed a concern I had with RG. Some chose to ignore my comment, which I felt was mature and perfectly acceptable to me. Others posted their support for Dr G, and it was mature and acceptable. And some said I was wrong. That's fine, even the added criticisms don't bother me. I didn't and won't challenge any of you on your right to express your opinion about what me or what I posted.

But Rosencrantz defended me, and that was her right to express her opinion. That's okay isn't it, for her to defend me if she wants to feels she needs to? She said we shared some of the same opinions, and she was affirming that.

It seems to me that her style has come under attack here. And style is a very personal thing. I doesn't get much more personal than that. We really can cause tremendous damage when we mishandle people on this level.

If anyone uses this thread as an opportunity to bring out 'Old Axes' to grind against Rosencrantz or anyone else, does that really advance us at all here? This is a support board, isn't it? Rosencrantz supported me, so now I'm supporting her.

Some of you have strongly supported Dr G. And I'll say now, I am sorry for offending you and I also apologise to Dr G. if my post offended him.  

The old voicelessness issues that we are all here dealing with here, do not license any of us to say hurtful things to each other or conduct callous in-depth post-mortoms on each other. If that's what I was doing with DR G, and I still can't se it, I apologise in advance of my seeing it.

Questioning each other is fine if it honestl and mixed with compassion. I try always to bear in mind that each of us found our way here because life has dealt us some pretty severe blows. It's so easy to be insensitive, I know. I can be extremely insensitive, usually with the wrong people. Was that you this time Dr G. I'm sorry. The people who I'm afraid of I find I'm automatically extremely sensitive with. I'm trying to grow and develop a compassionate listening voice here and at home and in the big wide world.

My aim here on this forum, besides learning from you all, is to be ever mindful that each and every one of you that I relate to and share with here, I have a duty of care to. I musn't, I can't, I won't abuse this intimate privilige that you have all given me.  Especially when you're sharing here some of the deepest pains and secrets in your lives. And as a result of that I'm growing and healing. I owe you whatever amount of gentleness and compassion and I can manage. Life has already been way to hard for for you and me. I don't want to make it any harder for you.

Love to each an every one of you, and love and thanks to you Rosencrantz.

Guest.

[Rojo]

Hi, All

Dr. Grossman, your story about your dog really touched me.  I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend.  I am a major animal lover and my dogs, cat, birds, fish and all the other critters around me are some of the most important and dearest aspects of my life.

Why are they so important?  For me, it's because they give me more love than I ever thought I deserved.  My pets have taught me more about love than any other being, book or experience in that they've shown me with absolute clarity what the unconditionality of love really looks like.  I never knew such a thing existed until I started coming home to bounding doggie kisses, helicopter tail wagging and howls of pure joy (plus the cat screaming and the birds screeching like quintessential banshees!)...all for me, no matter what mood I was in, no matter what I'd said five minutes before opening the door, or what good deeds I had or had not done that day.  My pets changed everything.  My pets are who I aspire to be - absolutely good, joyful, strong, courageous, ever-giving and loyal to the end, no matter what the circumstances - passed or present.

So, when the day comes, again, to loose one of my four-legged/feathered/scaled loves, I will be heartbroken and face the acute, searing devastation that is grief.  I will also smile and think of a phrase of Buzz Lightyear's in the movie Toy Story..."To infinity and beyond!!!"  For, the type of love my pets have shown me is truly infinite in quality and quantity and in such love is held, I believe, the answers to all our questions about space, time and the purpose of our existence.

What a priviledge it is to share our lives with these marvellous gifts.  Thank you so much for sharing your story.

God bless,

Rojo

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Many thanks for all of your compassionate comments about W.—I very much appreciated them.  W. was truly a dog with “voice.”  Even in the last few months of his life, he made it very clear where he wanted to go in the neighborhood, and if I tried to lead him somewhere else, he would sit down on the sidewalk and refuse to budge.

Concerned Guest:  I understand you disagreed with how I handled the board situation, and that it has led to a degree of mistrust.  I hope over time the trust will return, and I truly appreciate the hard work/self reflection you are doing on this board.

Once again--thanks to all,

Richard

[phoenix]

bye

[longtimelurker]

well there's a thread that turned around.

thank you rosencratz and thank you guest.

my teddy bear remark was meant to be funny!

[Discounted Girl]

Dr. G -- your post on W prompted me to comment. I have always had a dog throughout most of my life, but when I lost my best little friend in 1996, I have never been the same. I am aware of it and so are others who know of the situation. Remember the "Mr. Bojangles" song -- that dog up and died ... after 20 years he still grieves. That's me ... and I think what it is is the loss of true, non-conditional love, so sweet, tender and kind. It is truly a loss and leaves a big void if you have not received much love in your life. As to reality, I am quite certain I will see him again when I transcend into whatever other state we move to after death. Reality is only our own personal perception and I like to think he will be part of my reality. Thanks for bringing up the subject