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Blowing Bubbles...

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rosencrantz:
Thanks you guys!  It's great that you feel great that I feel great!!!  :D

I felt that I was hogging Wildflower's 'Healing' thread, so I've brought some of my stuff back here.  Thanks for this comment, Guest...


--- Quote ---Sounds like she's been stuck in the child point, or likes it there. And at some time, way, way, way back, you moved to the parent point and she liked it, (heck, maybe even you liked it for a moment,) so she's kept pushing you back there, every time you try to get out, and go back to the child point.  
--- End quote ---


It's not safe for her to be in the parent role. I don't want her to be in the parent role - it's only safe if I'm in the parent role. I carry that into real life, too - I prefer to chair meetings, for example and, gosh, how I used to despise myself for that - 'who do I think I am'!!!. When I do lead a project, all these 'children' pull on my apron strings and I'm just not strong enough - they pull me down, exhaust me. More self-despising. "See, all that wanting to 'run the show', be in the limelight, competing and taking on the role of leader and you can't hack it, can you?! Pathetic!"

I see now that I was so, so wrong about my motivation. I certainly didn't feel that I wanted to take on the role of leader when there were others around to do it who could carry out the role. I rarely came across them. But somebody strong and whole turns up and - hey - things are safe round here. I can relax!! I'm just the Princess round here, never intended to be Queen - let me show you to the throneroom!!!   :wink:

Except then I despise myself for not having had the courage to be in charge and for wanting to be the 'number two' - but I'm such a brilliant gopher/trouble-shooter/enabler. When someone is in charge, then I can do anything (for them) because I'm not frightened, or in a no win situation.

But this then makes me ripe for abuse by 'N' women. Whatever you want, I will do for you. You know, the full blown sicko masochistic slave thing. That's what it feels like, anyway. It only took one whisper for me to realise and I shut the door so damn quick but everything I had built up was already destroyed. I was so ashamed to realise I'd been suckered into such a relationship - and at 'that' kind of level in 'that' kind of organisation! God, I've led such a complicated life!!!

So these are two aspects of the same 'mother'. I think my mother must really be sick or I've got something seriously wrong with me. (Or both) I really, really don't see it possible to come out from understanding this in any other way.

But I think that I can now understand myself in a different way. I'm just 'filling the gap' until somebody 'safer' comes along - somebody more rational, stronger, 'truly' strong who will put everybody - the weak, the cruel, the crazy - in their proper places. And who won't use me to meet their own needs.

That 'inexperienced therapist' comes in here, too. Right towards the beginning, we had a session in which some kind of nteraction 'happened'. Whatever I was 'doing' to him, was making him sweat - literally. What was going on??? On the way home I suddenly sank in a devastated heap - no, I just couldn't, shouldn't do this : if I look after him then I'll never get 'better'. (!) But it was too late. Whatever 'interaction' had gone on, I'd come out of it by saying 'no thanks, terrible idea' but he never did. And I was his 'mother' ever after that.

So when I was 'put' into group therapy I was devastated - I feared it would only push me into the 'looking after everybody' role again and I just didn't want that - particularly as that would then put me into a role in which I was competing with the 'real' group leaders (two women) and that would never do either. What a mess, what confusion - no win, never could win, wouldn't let myself win - I didn't want to win - but she (my mother) just wasn't safe.

It's totally different in terms of 'real' parenting. My mother used to say 'when you've got children of your own, then you'll know what it's like' and I guiltily waited for the moment when it would be true and I'd 'know'. But when my own child came along, all it proved to me was that I wouldn't dream of doing to him what she does to me. In fact, having my own child was probably the 'sowing of seeds' that led to me having a greater understanding of what she does do to me.

One day I even thought about testing something out on my son just to see what he thought about it (long before I'd worked the concept of narcissim into my vocabulary). And I couldn't do it - even as an experiment, I just couldn't get the words out of my mouth. I can't remember what it was - nothing devastating but just 'wrong'.

But 'not being strong enough to be the (my own) parent' - now that HAS affected my own role as a mother. I realise that I haven't felt strong enough to be my son's parent. Oh  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  That's the damage I've done. I've become more and more ill over time, less able to play or do anything requiring physical energy. And I'm so, so angry (apparently 'bored' - 'yawn').

Anyway, I didn't ever want to be my mother's parent. Parent is too close to persecutor in my mother's mind. Yes, she wants me to be the parent. But I'm just trying to fill in the gap in my own life until something better comes along!!!! And trying to avoid the yukkie stuff in between!!

Groan - I will now lightly let myself descend into what I feel about all this.  :o  Some of the shame has gone!!!??? It should be curling up round my ears. It's definitely somewhere, lurking around, but, well, dance a jig!!!!!!!!!  8)  Nope, my ears are definitely not buzzing; I can see clearly; I'm not shrinking in my chair. I can't believe this!!!!! I realise it might leap up again after I've posted this but, for now....  8)  !
R

Anonymous:

--- Quote from: rosencrantz ---


Except then I despise myself for not having had the courage to be in charge and for wanting to be the 'number two' - but I'm such a brilliant gopher/trouble-shooter/enabler. When someone is in charge, then I can do anything (for them) because I'm not frightened, or in a no win situation.

But this then makes me ripe for abuse by 'N' women. Whatever you want, I will do for you. You know, the full blown sicko masochistic slave thing. That's what it feels like, anyway. It only took one whisper for me to realise and I shut the door so damn quick but everything I had built up was already destroyed. I was so ashamed to realise I'd been suckered into such a relationship - and at 'that' kind of level in 'that' kind of organisation! God, I've led such a complicated life!!!

So these are two aspects of the same 'mother'. I think my mother must really be sick or I've got something seriously wrong with me. (Or both) I really, really don't see it possible to come out from understanding this in any other way.

But I think that I can now understand myself in a different way. I'm just 'filling the gap' until somebody 'safer' comes along - somebody more rational, stronger, 'truly' strong who will put everybody - the weak, the cruel, the crazy - in their proper places. And who won't use me to meet their own needs.

That 'inexperienced therapist' comes in here, too. Right towards the beginning, we had a session in which some kind of nteraction 'happened'. Whatever I was 'doing' to him, was making him sweat - literally. What was going on??? On the way home I suddenly sank in a devastated heap - no, I just couldn't, shouldn't do this : if I look after him then I'll never get 'better'. (!) But it was too late. Whatever 'interaction' had gone on, I'd come out of it by saying 'no thanks, terrible idea' but he never did. And I was his 'mother' ever after that.


One day I even thought about testing something out on my son just to see what he thought about it (long before I'd worked the concept of narcissim into my vocabulary). And I couldn't do it - even as an experiment, I just couldn't get the words out of my mouth. I can't remember what it was - nothing devastating but just 'wrong'.

But 'not being strong enough to be the (my own) parent' - now that HAS affected my own role as a mother. I realise that I haven't felt strong enough to be my son's parent. Oh  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  That's the damage I've done. I've become more and more ill over time, less able to play or do anything requiring physical energy. And I'm so, so angry (apparently 'bored' - 'yawn').

Anyway, I didn't ever want to be my mother's parent. Parent is too close to persecutor in my mother's mind. Yes, she wants me to be the parent. But I'm just trying to fill in the gap in my own life until something better comes along!!!! And trying to avoid the yukkie stuff in between!!

Groan - I will now lightly let myself descend into what I feel about all this.  :o  Some of the shame has gone!!!??? It should be curling up round my ears. It's definitely somewhere, lurking around, but, well, dance a jig!!!!!!!!!  8)  Nope, my ears are definitely not buzzing; I can see clearly; I'm not shrinking in my chair. I can't believe this!!!!! I realise it might leap up again after I've posted this but, for now....  8)  !
R
--- End quote ---



Hi Rosencrantz, I'm reading this again, trying to clear the picture I get from this, but it is a bit blurred.

I see you in your 2IC uniform. I'll  use an army/war scenario.

You're leading a mission to reach and secure a particular destination, and to get there you must pass through some very dangerous places. You need to also establish control along the way. If you don't the troops following you can't advance.

And so that they can advance it's up to you to do it. It's a case of  "Somebody has to bring some order here."  So it's you, because you were first one there to notice it was a such a dangerous place and how vulnerable you all are. And maybe a vital stronghold of the enemy. What happens if no-one else comes along to relieve you? What if no reinforcements come? What if no supplies get bought in to sustain you and keep you going?

Then you can't advance on to your true objective, which is your real mission. So what happens? You get stuck back there, in no-man's -land.

Your 7th paragraph I highlighted tells me, sadly, you worry about having no little or energy to parent the way you would want to. And you're feeling or becoming ill. No wonder! You've been stuck in no-man's-land, with no reinforcements or supplies, and nobody has come to relieve you
or back you up. And then I wonder, did anyone say they would?

I just re-read this and I feel can't advance these thoughts at the moment. I've just hit an insecurity buffer that says "Maybe I'm on the wrong track here," and you're reading this, Rosencrantz, going :shock:  :shock: "I wish I knew what the heck is she is on about?"

We're such complex creatures, human beings. I wish I was less complex sometimes, but then that's impossible. I think that's one of the reasons why I love Hippo's so much. They're my favourite African jungle animal.  Sometimes I think I'd love to be a hippopotamus, (I've already got the bum) just floating in the river, relaxing in my group, safe with no natural predators, watching all the babies playing safely, encircling and protecting them as a united group if crocs appear. Hippo mothers are so wonderful, the way they look out for each others babies, like elephants do. I'd just calmly float and be, with no major issues or deep philosophies to hang me up.

Thanks for reading
Guest

PS, Oh yes, I had a question re- the inexperienced therapist. Did it take long before you 'twigged'? I think you can be proud of yourself for recognising it. And secondly, do you think you recognised a lot sooner than you would have 'once upon a time'?  Is your confidence building that you recognise these types sooner?

Peanut:
Hi Rosencrantz:  I actually just joined this board because of stumbling upon your post and this quote:


--- Quote ---But I knew this morning that I no longer had to worry that 'changing' might mean I meet someone else and leave him behind. Because I can 'choose'. I won't have to run off and leave him - because I am no longer motivated by what's hidden from me. I may change; I may no longer 'need' the things I needed when I first married him. But I can 'choose' to be loyal. Heck, I can 'choose' to love him to bits if I want to!!!!! It seems I can even choose 'not' to be weighed down by so many things.

Being free to be yourself is quite 'en-lightening'  

And it means 'I can choose'!
--- End quote ---


This just blew me away how right on it was to some of what I have finally concluded, (after 43 years).

Thanks so much for sharing your insight.

Regards, Peanut[/size][/color]

Anonymous:

--- Quote from: Nic ---

"I can choose!"  quite the cliche until you've actually realized the implication of these three words.  

"I", me, all of me, the awakened me, the complete me,the imperfect and that's ok me, the uncensored me, ultimately the me that loves Me..

CAN, action verb..realize, potentialize, expand, go anywhere and do anything of my own volition,  

CHOOSE..say yes, say no..go ahead, stay put..find a comfort zone..stop for a rest and breathe easy..
And then suddenly it isn't a cliche anymore is it?

I'm going to expand on this in a later post, but suffice it to say that I celebrate your freedom..it's so powerful I can taste it from here!

Merveilleux ma belle, comme je suis heureux pour toi.
love Nic. :D
--- End quote ---


Nic, this was really good stuff.

Guest.

rosencrantz:
Hi Guest - I think I've just about written myself out today but I didn't want to leave you thinking I was going  :shock:  :shock: !  LOL

Thank you for trying to understand where I'm coming from.  I read it after I posted it and realised it was so dense that it would be difficult to understand from the outside.  Trying to bring in so many levels of my experience in one, being cryptic about situations that really aren't worth describing.  But I'm OK about it - it makes sense to me!!  

What an interesting take on it.  I certainly 'got it' as you described the clearing (no man's land).  That place I'm looking after is my sanity and there were no other troops -just me.  And, no, I never expected that anybody would come.  "Alone, all all alone, alone in a big wide sea" I think it's a quote from something.  And nobody trained me for this - so I don't even know how to use the ammunition!!! ;-)  Even tho I appear to be well provided for, I can't use any of it!!! Totally 'armless!!! LOL

Re your last para : It's not about 'recognising' 'what goes on' in other people - it's about allowing myself to embrace it as 'accurate'! And to stop giving everyone else 'excuses' for what they do which prevents me from dealing with it!!! (Just got that!)

What a wonderfully calming image, those hippos.  I suspect you already achieve that inside. That's what you did for me when I needed it - thanks!!! :-)  ((((Guest)))) (If I've got the emoticons right, I just gave you a quick hug while noone was looking!)  :wink:
R

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