Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Ns and their mothers
Tokyojim:
As I mentioned on a number of posts, I have an N "friend" of about 40 years but fortunately do not live in the same state.
When we were in high school and shortly thereafter, I instinctively knew that he should break from his mother. I tried to convince him to go away to college, get an apartment, or move to another state of which he was so fond.
Well, he stayed with her until she died at about 83. He never married and virtually always dated women who were abused or suffering from bipolar, depression, etc. They therefore never reached his standard, and he stayed with Mum.
I would visit occasionally when I went to his town to see my brother and his family. Anyway, I saw one incident that unnerved me and would like to relate it.
He was probably in his 40s. I was on the back porch, about to knock on the door. He was naked in the bathroom, apparently after having taken a shower. He walked stark naked into the other room (no towel or anything), and spoke with his mother about some simple thing, calling her by her first name.
Maybe I am "uptight" or whatever, but I cannot imagine standing naked and chatting in front of any female relative, and certainly would be very surprised if my daughter did that in front of me.
I never told him I saw it. He has remarked, numerous times, how happy his mother must have been to have a young man around the house and how he became a surrogate husband after her divorce.
Comments? Impressions?
Thanks!
surf14:
HI Tokyojim:
Yes it seems as if that is just what he had arranged with her to be; her young husband. The alarm signals are going off everywhere on the boundaries issues here; being this close and enmeshed with her is he gay?
Am wondering what brought this up for you at this time? Surf
Tokyojim:
Surf,
Thank you for your information. Your comments triggered some memories about the N's relationships with women. They were predominately sado-masochistic. I mean whips and ropes. He kept telling me how great anal sex is, and insisted that I should try it with any girlfriend. After pressing him about "why" he likes it so much, he finally said that it was because it really hurts the female if done violently and one feels powerful and in control. As a textbook N with projections, he insisted that I really wanted to do this and should not fight my true desires....
He may have dabbled in a gay lifestyle. At one point, he bragged about his many gay associates. However, years ago, when I read a book, "Class" by Fussell, something jumped out. The book was about how Americans search for status. The author made one comment about some status seekers associating with gay men because they are sometimes more into the arts, are very sophisticated, use language eloquently, etc. The N changed his speaking patterns, bragged about attending concerts, museums, etc. at that time. In addition, he insisted, without using the word "gay," that I needed to realize my true sexuality. A number of times, he said that I was a "sexual pervert" and should not be ashamed of it. I must comment that none of this concretely affects me, except that it does anger me when I take the form of a projection of his unconscious drives and do not exist as a person.
What triggered the comment? I saw a movie last night, "Dead Again," a good thriller in which one character was basically emotionally crippled because of being too close to mommy. Probably in his 50s and still with mom.
Anonymous:
TokyoJim,
Your message (the homosexuality part) re. your friend, reminds me so much of some things regarding my own former situation with my xN boyfriend.
He had not had any relationship, or dated at all, for 11 years (and that was his 1st girlfriend) before he met me (35 when met, so since 24). Of course, that should have been a major red flag for me, but I covered it with denial/magical thinking.
While together, I noticed the following:
-He once said: I have flipped channels & sometimes seen nude women, I see pretty girls on the street, and didn't feel anything, but with you, I feel incredibly turned on.
-He was overly defensive about anything related to homosexuality.
-I saw a pic. of his girlfriend at 24 and I literally lost my breath, though I tried so hard to hide it at the time. It looked soooo much like a male!
-Some of his movements seemed effeminate (though this can be the case for truly hetro. men).
-When I questioned him about girls his sister tried to set him up with over the years (I was very curious about 11 years alone) he would always say that he just didn't feel anything when with them.
What I am really wondering, is whether the staying away from committed, stable relationshps with women (as a life long thing), is good marker of sexual preference issues?
Abstaining could be due to severe emotional/psychological issues but it seems as though even people with problems in this area still don't shy away from relationships. They usually get in many and wreak havoc on them all.
I am wondering if for those who abstain altogether, whether the issue is sexuality much of the time.
I asked him point blank once if he had sexuality issues, and he laughed and vehemently denied it. I don't think he was at an emotional place where he would have even admitted to himself, let alone me, though.
I do know that he has major/pathological trust issues.
surf14:
HI Tokyojim and guest;
Tokyojim; this sado masochistic friend of yours couldn't have liked women much at all if he got such a thrill from hurting them; he sounds pretty messed up. Interesting that he encouraged you to get in touch with your "true" sexuality; I wonder what his thoughts were about his true sexuality? Its easy to assume that he was gay from what you've shared and even so he sounds perverse.
Guest;
I'm glad your XN boyfriend was a boyfriend and not a husband! His homophobia was probably a red flag; his denial that he didn't have any sexual issues is suspect along with some of the other cues you mentioned. you can count your lucky stars that you didn't marry this person and then have to suffer this for a period of time or have to extricate yourself from an unworkable marriage . I'm glad he's your X; are you with someone healthier now?
Surf
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