Wanting to give up after minor? incident with N

[dandylife]

My son has been enjoying watching the Little House on the Prairie DVDs. They are so good. We are on Season 2.

He has a fear of tornadoes and severe weather.  I think a common fear for a 9 year old living in the midwest US.

Anyway, he read in the "previews" that the next show would be about a tornado and how it wiped out the crop. He said, "I don't want to watch that one. We'll skip over it and go on to the next."

NH says, "No.! Put that one in. We will NOT skip a show."

Son protests, "No, dad. I just really don't want to watch that one."

NH gets all professorial/arrogant, "Son! Put that one in. It will be good for you to watch it. Now do it."

I say in as much humor as I can muster, "What if you were forced to watch a show with (something he hates).?)"

Son put in a different show, NH went into kitchen and ate standing by the sink, avoiding us. Then went to bed without saying good night.

Now today has been avoiding/giving the evil eye to me.

The only thing he has said is, "blah blah blah (pretending to be a professor of phobias) If you don't immerse the person in the phobia, then they will not get rid of it. blah blah"

I said, "I disagree. And that's ok."

He said, "Not with this."

I said, "Wha?"

Just avoiding each other since.

I just hate this.

I started reading the book, "Passionate Marriage" late last night, which focuses on "differentiation". It's a good thing. You need to differentiate yourself in order to be "real".

Well, I feel that because I differ in my opinion, he's trying to punish me.

Anyone have a take on this? Am I missing something?

Dandylife

[isittoolate]

hi DL

You stopped him in his tracks and he didn't know what to do/say! That's my take, because you opposed him.

punish you? likely/maybe--just watch the next few days--you thwarted a 'plan' and he needs another?

Let us know?
Love
Izzy

[Ami]

- This is exactly how I feel about my family life. Your scenario expressed it ,perfectly. Every little " stinking" thing becomes a potential fight Every little difference has the 'gravity " of a nuclear war.This is life  with N's.
 . This is typical of the N family. Everything is huge and nothing makes any sense-- like forcing a child to watch something that he is afraid of.
  If I did not have God-- it would be way too overwhelming to face.Sorry, Dandy. I wish that I had something positive to say. Actually, I do. You did the right thing .ALWAYS protect the children like you did. The bad news is that you always have to keep doing it over and over again .(Sorry to be such a bummer)               Love  Ami
 

[Certain Hope]

Dandylife,

Far as I can see, you missed nothing.

I couldn't even wash my floors "my" way without him takin offense, followed by the sulk, followed by the cerebral N lecture, more sulking, more lecturing, following me from room to room, keeping me up all hours with his blah, blah, blah.... which all wound up with him accusing me of having cut of his cahones because I wouldn't agree that he was right.

My son was about 7 when we were out at a creek, about a mile from our vehicle, and bad weather blew in suddenly. We're also in tornado alley and my little boy had good reason to be a bit alarmed. We really did need to gather up our belongings and head to our vehicle, but ex_N refused to budge. The kids and I packed it in and began walking without him, when N finally got off his duff to join us. He must have hurried along, because the next thing I heard was him whispering loudly to my son about what a pansy he was for being frightened by a little weather. Well, there was no tornado, but it was an awful storm - broken branches everywhere and severe lightning. Didn't faze N a bit though... he insisted for long afterwards that there was no reason for us to have left. What I was already beginning to realize at that time though, was this - - if we had suggested that there was no reason to leave that day, he would have been the one urging us to leave quickly.

Maybe test out a bit of reverse psychology and see what happens... if you can stand it.
Ugh - I despise those N games.

In all fairness, though... my husband now is not NPD and yet we occasionally have similar spats. Not too often, but every once in awhile he'll want to do something that I just know won't work out right and he's not too happy if I insist that it's not a good idea. The difference is - - -
when it's proven out that I'm correct (and no, I don't have a 100% average - lol)  he is not angry, resentful, or sulky about it.
And there we have the vast gulf between an ordinary alpha male and NPD  (imo).

Good for your son for speaking up about his concerns!! That takes courage and shows he's got a mama who allows him to speak his mind about such things.

Wishing you well!

Hope

[Ami]

Do you have a relationship that "works",now,Hope.? is it possible for the children of N mothers to ever find a relationship that doesn't turn out to be horrible? Do you feel that you have a marriage that feels "good"?                                                           Love Ami

[Certain Hope]

Do you have a relationship that "works",now,Hope.? is it possible for the children of N mothers to ever find a relationship that doesn't turn out to be horrible? Do you feel that you have a marriage that feels "good"?                                                           Love Ami

Yes, Ami... it's possible. My husband and I just celebrated our 3rd anniversary. I wouldn't say that it always feels "good", but it always feels right.
Together, we have each broken our old habit of sulking (we were both a couple of PhD's in that fine art) and I have learned that I don't have to approach the point of implosion before I can open my mouth and speak my mind. Those are just a couple of highlites of our toddler years together. It's not all rosy, but it's all progress... and that, to me, is healthy, sane, and lovely.
I would not recommend my method of leaping into relationships to anyone. It's only by God's grace that I didn't wind up in an even worse mess than ex-N.

Love,
Hope

[Ami]

I'm probably going to just end up with my dogs .

[finding peace]

Hey Dandylife,

Given that you live in an area where a tornado could occur, and that tornadoes can be life-threatening, seems to me your baby doesn’t have an irrational fear (definition of a phobia) – he has a rational fear.  To force him to watch something that he fears might come true (and with a good possibility that it might happen), seems to me to be just plain cruel.

On the other hand, even if it is a true phobia, you can’t force a person into a cure – in my experience the person has to be willing to get past the phobia.  I had a lot of phobias as a child.  My father would try and force me to get over them – just made the phobias worse, and to top it off, I developed a lot of resentment towards my father for trying to force this on me.

My daughter is terrified of butterflies.  We went on a tour once and as part of the tour they took us to a butterfly habitat – it was huge and all of the butterflies were loose.  There is no way in h*** I would force her to go in there unless she was ready and wanted to face her fear.

You mentioned he has N'tendencies in another thread - given this, seems to me you hit the nail on the head - you are being punished because you have a differing opinion.  The price you are paying this time sounds like the silent treatment?.  So how about rather than letting the silent treatment get under your skin so to speak, you think of it as some nice peace and quiet for awhile .  (Please know I am not making light of this – they can be infuriating!!)

IMO you did the right thing. 

Peace

[Ami]

Dear Dandy,
  I was thinking about a saying that someone in my support group used to say. She said,"Let the whirling dervishes whirl."I never understood it with my heart until reading your post. The N's are doing a "dance". We can mold ourselves to their dance until we are sick and broken.
   Their dance does not change -- no matter what we do. They continue whirling whether or not they destroy  us in the process.
  I see that with my mother,too. I bent and broke,but it really didn't matter to her. She just keeps on whirling                                                                           Love  Ami

[WRITE]

No I don't think that making son watch a movie will help him in any way, kids go through these fears both rational and irrational and mostly they are just a stage.

I have always had to talk to my ex about handling things like this sensitively, and he still doesn't quite get it though he is better since he has been handling son alone without me around and had to deal with the results without me!

I think when the communication is bad between the parents the child becomes the issue often, this wasn't about a movie or parenting or even your son, it was about your ex feeling the need to take control and not being able to accept when you over-ruled him.

If you had a happy overall home/marriage it wouldn't matter, would just be one of those points of negotiation that all families have instead of turning into a drama.

I hate atmospheres and the most wonderful thing about living alone is not having to endure someone else's moods. If there's an atmosphere now it's down to me!

Hope it blows over soon.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Hopalong]

Yarrggghhh. I'm so sorry Dandy.
Nothing hurts more than needing to protect your child from an Nparent.

It sounds, too, like a bunch of cultural crap about what is masculine: "I don't want my boy to grow up to be a wuss."

Very unhappy mix.

Sometimes a "small" incident is a last straw, or suddenly appears with great clarity, as a foretelling.
Or a last straw, now we get counseling, kind of thing.

Hops

[dandylife]

Such great advice and kind words from you guys. Thanks.

Still getting the stone cold silent treatment.

Hey, I've got lots of work to do. And when that runs out, lots of good books to read!

I'll let you know tomorrow if this clears up - and how.

Good night,
Dandylife

[Confounded]

Sounds very familiar.  He can't be wrong.  Yeah, right. 

It's like havng a very large kid around.  I want to watch the movie Mommy!  My little brother's issues don't matter.  He just has to suck it up.  Because I say so!

What?!?  I can't have my way!!!???  Now I'm really mad!!!

Whatever...

You do your thing.  Try not to let it get to you.  He's irrational, selfish, absurd.  There's no way to make the situation reasonable.   

[axa]

Dandy,

Its a simple as this HE, THE GREAT OMNIPOTENT ONE IS ALWAYS RIGHT.  Now one should know that with the OMNIPOTENT one things can change from moment to moment.  What movie is ok today may be an absolute No NO tomorrow.  You must read his mind, bend to his will and always always ensure that that you and everyone else agrees with him.

So sorry for your precious son hugs to you and yours (Except the O one.)

Hope,

Cannot imagine life with a man again.  I think I so do not trust myself at this stage.  I think you are very brave to marry again and hope that all works well for you.

axa

[dandylife]

Izzy,
you used the code word for anger : "thwarted". Yes, this tends to trigger anger. I'm sure this is what happened.

Ami,
It's strange. The 'atmosphere' here in our house seems to echo the BPD black and white thinking concept. It's either all good, or all bad. We can go for a few days with having lots of fun (between working - we are both pretty much workaholics working at home) but we will watch movies with our son, play pool, have friends over, etc. and it will all be GOOD. But, when an unpredictable trigger happen, it becomes a total switch.

Certain Hope,
You resonate with what happened to me. BUT you say that you don't think your H is N "anymore". What happened? Why don't you think so? Do you think he improved, or do you think he wasn't in the first place? This is a VERY interesting topic for me - please do post more when you can. Being back with my H - I have alot of fear about the future. So sorry you had to deal with the stormy weather of the day and the stormy moods of your "n"?

Peace,
Thanks. This is where it gets REALLY interesting, IMO. You say I "did the right thing" in protecting my child. And I totally and completely agree. This is where my NH has the difficulty and I think this is what defines him as BPD with N tendencies - We were discussing a bit about what happened and he said, "I knew when you said 'How would you feel if you were forced to watch ___', that you didn't trust me. I NEED TO KNOW THAT YOU COMPLETELY 100% KNOW AND TRUST THAT I WOULD NEVER DO ANYTHING TO HURT OUR SON. And you don't. Because you said that, I know you don't trust me."

What I'm thinking this means is that at this point, he is asking me to SELL MY SOUL. Give up the discriminations, the judgments, the valuations inside my own head that make me decide what's right and wrong for my son and he wants me to GIVE THIS OVER TO HIM.

This is very profound, I think.

Look at the way he says it. It's sort of forlorn. Sort of sad, sort of a lovely sentence there that seems to state how much he loves his son and would never do anything to hurt him.

But look at what he's demanding of me.

I think this is a beautiful example of how N's circle for the kill. Eloquently, oh so emotionally.

But, I said to him,

"I WILL NEVER EVER GIVE UP THAT LIONESS INSIDE ME THAT PROTECTS MY KIDS. NOT FOR YOU, NOT FOR ANYONE!"

And that was that.

I did not give him another chance to speak, nothing.

I will NOT be on the ground, with his foot on my neck, ever again.

Peace - thanks for supporting me in protecting my child. I know it's the right thing! You, too!

CB - You mention control. Yes, I think that control is very important. They want to direct how we act and react. And when we don't act in the way they want, out come the tantrums and whatnot.

Ami, - the "whirling dervish". Yes, great metaphor. You are very talented in the metaphor area - have you been a counselor before? I think you'd make a remarkable therapist. So much empathy and so much love to give. It's easy to say and difficult to follow through on. So many times, I approach my N saying to myself, I will NOT argue, I will NOT get angry. I will NOT do or say anything stupid. Guess what? I do all 3 - strike out.

Write- The atmosphere is very important. I want a seamless atmosphere, but that's just idealistic. I don't think a perfect atmosphere is necessary - just one that's consistent and that points out injustices! I am striving for that for my son. (I have given up any "fairy tales" I ever might have had)! Yes, I have accepted that life with him will be up and down. And that's ok.

Hopalong - I agree - and any major personal committment is very important to keep. But it's essential to protect the children.

confounded- "Can't be wrong" yes - this is a major sticking point. It's difficult to deal with people who simply can't be wrong. Impossible, really. Not without a sense of humor anyway!

Axa - ominpotence. OH GOSH. Yes, when he was speaking to me - he gets this "I AM GOD" kind of stance and posture and says things like, "You are speaking from ignorance. You really don't want to do that."  It's so maddening. It triggers me so badly when he acts like that. That's when I feel myself losing my dignity and getting ready to say some nasty thing to him.


Besee, Good points. Yes, he is all those things. BPD with N tendencies. He's a caring father. Another factor is that he just went off Effexor within the past 3 weeks. I think that's a biggie here, before he probably would have been able to shrug this all off had he been on the meds. I said in jest, "Either you or I should be on medication from now on...." It's true, it's very helpful to have the Effexor to dull the emotions for him, he has such a hard time regulating them otherwise.

Thanks all for the support while I went through that! I just got up this morning, saw him, and said, "I'm not willing to be mad or fight anymore." I gave him a big hug and a smile. He accepted it all with a smile, himself. I was surprised. We haven't mentioned it again. I think it's just something that should have blown over all on it's own, but what with the emotional dysregulation, it makes it very very difficult. And then when he chose behaviors that triggered me, we spiraled last night into a bad bad discussion and I ended up stomping off to bed. I could write more about it, but it was basically him pushing all my triggers, - I would say as punishment - watching me a puppet - him pulling the strings.

Anyway - I guess I've pushed it aside and found the important thing - the ability to have a different voice and make it be okay.

Dandylife