sigh, sigh, sigh...

[Nic]

Oh Write..I forgot to say this.

I will never forget your advice to take care of myself within a relationship.  I'd heard that before but never expressed the way you did on that other thread..the one where you were describing how you didn't feel the need or want to " lose yourself in somebody".

I'm finding the advice, comments, indeed the level of discussion on this board so precious.  It's like having a multiple sibling cyber family unit.  I celebrate this..and grieve not having had what I have here in my N family.  My N parents/family was unable to furnish me with MOST skills necessary to LIVE a satisfying life...gosh that's sad ..to learn here at forty years of age what I could have learnt in a " normal" family..boggles the mind really

A note on communication:  Today I got home a little later than expected..when I arrived the comment to me was: " You're not used to having someone wait for you huh?"  I was dumbstruck...i'm not irresponsible, i'm not unaccountable..and yet I answered: " No, i'm not." I didn't answer offended ,like I could have in the past..i just took the time to think it through.
I inquired as to why C was telling me this whilst admitting I could have called but really couldn't...turns out it was his issue and not mine..once that was established I felt better and let it go.
But the central issue was that I'm not as effective a communicator as I would like...mainly because no one's really ever cared what I think or do.  I had to care for others and deal with what they did..that was my role in my N family..
Point is..I think this was an effective way of taking care of myself within my relationship. Being vulnerable as opposed to being targetable.
Ok later then,
Nic

[Portia]

Hello all. Write, thanks for this thread, some more sparks going off in my head but first I had to recap of these absolute gems:

Gingerpeach said:

So, when a month later, I told him that I wanted to end the relationship, the most revealing thing that he said was....."So, I've spent the last year and a half dancing around to your tune for nothing?"

That’s it in a nutshell, the real true N at work. Astonishing. So inhuman! No empathy… I don’t know why I’m still shocked by this from time to time, but I am. It’s like they really do fit a stereotype, almost unbelievable if I hadn’t seen it for myself.

Write said:

My pain comes from wanting someone to meet my needs, and wanting it to be him, and him being unable to, and me being disappointed...and that could happen in any relationship and THOSE ARE MY ISSUES.

And I started to concoct my reply but CG did it much better:

CG said:

how my list of needs reduced somewhat, when it fell onto my shoulders to do it, I mean. Because it was so much hard work, I reduced it quite quite quite a bit. It had to come from inside me, and I found that most of those needs I wanted met were just form of romanticism anyway.

I love the idea of the list reducing because it’s hard work. That’s my kind of approach! So my basic needs are met: food, warmth, water, shelter, hugs, a sense of 'me'…hey, this can only get better! So what else do I need? Hmmm. Friends to talk with…

Write said:

I'll write more about that tomorrow and the new man who turned my head briefly recently!

Tease. Give give!

[Portia]

Nic, I think I have an explanation/distinction for you about:

The need to get better, the need to recover, the need to nurture self, the need to love self etc. To me, it points to alot of isolation and aloneness

think it is a built in reflex for people to look for other people to love..I love you, You love me is not necessarily a heavy and negative thing.

Getting better is not about being alone – it’s about recognising that the ‘problem’ is you. That you can only change you – you can’t change the other(s). And once you change you (and ain’t nobody can really make you ‘get it’ except yourself…therapists, friends can help, but you’ve got to want to get there and do it yourself!) - you start getting better.

It’s putting the responsibility for your mental health on your own shoulders – but that doesn’t mean isolation – only being accountable for yourself. I guess it does mean deep introspection and self-understanding though - which requires some kind of 'isolation'? I’m pretty sure you know all this and much more – I’m just saying the conversation above was on those lines, I think! Once we know ourselves, we can go and relate equally with others..etc etc…I sound like a book … (6 months ago I would’ve been   if I’d known I’d write this now and mean it, understand it!!! What, all that American psychobabble claptrap? Ha ha! It means something now and I love it! ).

And looking for people to love, yes, I’m sure we are built that way. But that means loving them for what they are and what we can share with them – not loving them for meeting some deficiency in ourselves, using them to shore us up, or loving them in order to change them into our parents! Ouch ouch (my past just passed before my eyes). Etc etc. Oh can I add not loving them because we want to control and own them, or make them accessories to our omnipotence?   Ha ha. Sorry.

Yes Nic, we’re all in the same boat. Isn’t that great in some ways! I’m not alone!!!   I’m really not!

“You're not used to having someone wait for you huh?"

....

Sorry! Hadn’t worked this one out before (about the breaking that rule) and look what happens! {EDIT IN: maybe this relates to memory: validation of ('What happens when you can't remember..? thread): Nic you sparked my memory here and 10 minutes later - wham - a load of similar stuff floods - memories of similar 'being late/waited for' instances where I was the 'bad girl'. Validation turns the memories around: not a bad girl! }

AND I used to be late for meetings all the time – with colleagues at work, with friends. And I was told it was rude of me, no consideration. Ha! You mean those people really were waiting for me at meetings? They really wanted me there? I mattered??! It’s funny how when you have no self-worth that it can look to outsiders as selfishness! Because you think no-one cares about what you do…so you hurt others by neglect….that’s not new thinking for me, I’m very punctual these days, but I have to watch for the other situations where I go into disappear mode.

What is it about this thread that got me going today?! Thanks all. P

[Wildflower]

relocated to the 'What if you can't remember much of your childhood?' thread  

[Gingerpeach]

With regard to the issues of being alone and "alonely" while recovering and healing, I read somewhere that the healing from an abusive relationship must be done within the context of relationships with others.  That you really can't heal all by yourself.  The cave is safe, but safety alone won't do it.

I resisted this one, and to some extent am still resisting.  But if you think about it, it makes sense.  On your own you can lick your wounds, but it is only by interacting with others that we can actually put into practice the changes we have made to insure that we will not accept abusiveness.

You can SAY it till the cows come home, that you won't allow abusive behavior from another ever again.  But until you actually practice doing things like boundary setting within the context of a relationship with another person, you haven't truly healed.

I think that this is one reason why we tend to go from one abusive relationship to another.  We mistake the absence of pain for healing.  We feel better because N is finally gone.  But until we really make the changes in ourselves and our own behavior and our communication with others ....we're sort of doomed to repeat the past.

To put it in a nutshell....one  actual "Kiss off, you jerk,"  is worth two years of sitting around watching videos with your cat for company.  I know, I know, you don't really have to be that rude all of the time, but sometimes.....you do.  

So, as scary as it sounds, you DO have to get out there and interact and "practice what you preach."

So, I want to ask Write who was brave and had her "head turned, briefly." Can you share with us how you actually interacted with him so he will stay away?  If I'm too nosey, tell me.  I just think that it's valuable information.

[write]

So, I want to ask Write who was brave and had her "head turned, briefly." Can you share with us how you actually interacted with him so he will stay away? If I'm too nosey, tell me. I just think that it's valuable information.

I posted it in the different man same vibes thread below.

How I interacted so he'd stay away?
Stopped responding to the honeyed words & flattery, didn't flirt any more and said directly: I'm only interested in a healthy one-on-one relationship. He gave me the lines about not being ready etc then proceeded to look around for what he really wants ( as far as I can tell ) ie casual sex and an ego massage.

I read somewhere the other day that if someone is attracted to you and you're not looking/ feeling / acting your best esp. if you're depressed then watch out- he's probably interested in one-up power inbalances.
I did feel flattered when he was attracted to me despite the fact that I was looking rough...but also I was surprised, I was so down at that time, and men so rarely see the inner person at first meeting.

I'm very grateful to him in that he provided a distraction for a few weeks when I really needed one, though I am terribly glad I didn't get involved or fall for him.

Are you familiar with Eric Berne's Games People Play, I can recommend it, you'll never look at relationship interactions the same again!

[write]

ps another piece of valuable information is about patience.
It's very tempting to rush into things because often when we look back we see missed opportunities ( rather than not meant to be or narrow escapes ) so we feel if we don't grab a relationship when it comes our way we might be lonely for a long time/forever etc.

Yet every single relationship which I value has evolved naturally over time, often measured in years rather than hours.
And the two men I have been 'in love' with I ended up lonely in the relationship.

Meeting someone where there's a mutual attraction its easy to take a convenience route, not wanting to 'waste' a source of attention/ sex/ distraction. The next step from that is to 'settle' for an unsatisfactory relationship rather than no relationship.

We fall in love with the best bits of someone, filtering out the rest, bolstered by our own expectations and imagination.

Shall I quote Wendy Cope ( for the millionth time )

Defining the problem

I can't forgive you. Even if I could
You wouldn't pardon me for seeing through you.
And yet I cannot cure myself of love
For what I thought you were before I knew you.

[Anonymous]

This thread and group has given me alot to think about and I thank you all - for being in this group, for writing it all down so well     I think that thoughts are thought and feeling are feelings.  I can change my feelings by changing my thoughts and you all are supporting me to do that.  I can go to bed easily tonight.  I feel less alone.

I feel like I am going through one of the strangest times of my life.  My mother, after one of her malicious diatribes recently (ie, "I will always be here for you when, unfortunately, your friends won't") has resorted to the generous mother to get my attention by sending a garden basket of toys for my 40th birthday.   I should shut up and give her what she wants...that is what she wants. She wants me to be her playmate.  The 6 year old needs a playmate and - guess what - she gets to be mother sometimes and tell me what to do and when she doesn't want to be the mother, she expects me to be the mother.

So I am recovering now in the early stages.  And standing strong.  The thing is that she is always going to do this.  Ditto for the other adult blood-relatives that I was surrounded by as a child (with the exception of my grandfather who died several years ago.)

With regard to the issues of being alone and "alonely" while recovering and healing, I read somewhere that the healing from an abusive relationship must be done within the context of relationships with others. That you really can't heal all by yourself. The cave is safe, but safety alone won't do it.

I agree.  Makes sense.  This, combined with down-time alone when you need it and the recognition of having your own voice - that others might like to hear (in whatever form) is helpng alot.  I've already had good results recently with my dancing and singing (that I always felt I couldn't show- no confidence.)

Thank you,write , for quoting Wendy Cope. I've never heard of her but I will remember those 4 lines forever.  

~Dawning

[Dawning]

Thought I was logged in when writing the previous post.

[write]

one of her malicious diatribes recently (ie, "I will always be here for you when, unfortunately, your friends won't")

you know Dawning, my life began again when I learned how to do friendship, and my friends have been there for me over and over again- not in that martyred way but in their own time, their own ways so that I've come to love and be loved.

My family have never been there like that, nor I to them.

Wendy Cope is a cool poet, lots of her stuff resonates, here's some more

http://www.arlindo-correia.com/050900.html
http://www.geocities.com/arlindo_correia/150900.html

My other favourite 'reminder' is

Two Cures for Love


 
 

Don't see him. Don't phone or write a letter

The easy way: get to know him better.