Author Topic: What if you can't remember much of your childhood?  (Read 14226 times)

Anonymous

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2004, 12:56:23 PM »
Quote from: Anonymous
Why do I want to remember? Because I feel as though I’m missing 10 years of my life. I think I constructed a “false self” to satisfy my mother, so in some ways I don’t feel as though I actually lived my early life – it’s as though someone else lived it. I saw the past for so long through my mother’s distorting lens, and I want to see it clearly for myself.  I don’t feel “different” because I can’t remember, but I do feel remembering will help heal me.


My view is that it isn't critical to recall events from childhood. What's important (imo) is to access the child within me and give her a chance to be a child now. I do it by letting myself feel the sense of curiosity, wonder, imagination, creativity. Getting to know my likes, dislikes, passions. This is the stuff my parents tried to suppress and replace with their own likes and dislikes. But they didn't get succeed. And they can't stop me anymore.

bunny

Wildflower

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2004, 02:09:35 PM »
Hi Portia,

Quote from: Portia

Quote from: Wildflower
I had lost so many of my memories about things I cared about


I don't understand. You mean, you used to remember and now you don't? Or - your memory has changed because of new knowledge? Or - you want to remember things you have been told about?


I'm upset that I lost them when I was younger.  My memories of my good dad had been squashed down into vague longings.  So vague I didn't even know they were about him.  I've been able to recover so many memories, so that's great.  Just a bit steamed/sad about the losing them in the first place, because they're important to me - important to who I am.


Hi Bunny,

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My view is that it isn't critical to recall events from childhood. What's important (imo) is to access the child within me and give her a chance to be a child now. I do it by letting myself feel the sense of curiosity, wonder, imagination, creativity. Getting to know my likes, dislikes, passions. This is the stuff my parents tried to suppress and replace with their own likes and dislikes. But they didn't get succeed. And they can't stop me anymore.



You've managed to say in seven sentences what has taken me over a hundred posts to begin to nail down.  I think you're so amazingly cool.  :D

Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude

rosencrantz

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2004, 03:26:27 PM »
Hi Guest - glad my posts sparked something for you.   :)

I think the issue is about 'remembering' what made us who we are.  Not necessarily 'events' but the whole way we were treated.  Events do point the way but our patterns of reacting and dealing with life in the here and now is the real key to the past AND the future.  

Gosh.  My brain hurts.  I think I've got battle fatigue from another thread.  I'm gonna have to go and lie down now.   (This may be my shortest post ever!! :wink: )
R
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Wildflower

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2004, 12:13:36 AM »
I loved this connection that Portia made, so I wanted to bring this over to this thread.

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Sorry! Hadn’t worked this one out before (about the breaking that rule) and look what happens!  {EDIT IN: maybe this relates to memory: validation of ('What happens when you can't remember..? thread): Nic you sparked my memory here and 10 minutes later - wham - a load of similar stuff floods - memories of similar 'being late/waited for' instances where I was the 'bad girl'. Validation turns the memories around: not a bad girl! Bad parents! Nasty parents!}


I goofed when copying this over and ended up losing my mental wanderings - and, um, I think my brain has gone to bed without me.  :lol:  :roll:  Ah, well.   :wink:

Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude

Dawning

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2004, 08:33:51 AM »
Welcome  :) .  What helped me reconcile conflicting memories (OR lack of them possibly due to years of repression) AND heal my inner child was to go back to the places I grew up.  Last year, with the aid of MapQuest and a rental car, I found the old houses/apartments where I grew up (only one was not there anymore) and I laid flowers at places that I remembered I remembered and then - wow- did I ever connect with my inner child.  I found her waiting there for me at each place I went, including schools.   I found myself in coffee shops in each city, remembering more and more and writing in my journal almost automatically.  It was very empowering.  I didn't tell anyone (except a confidant here) what I was planning.  The trip back entailed a 16 hour plane ride.  Once there,  I made sure to have music with me that I remembered listening to in those days for the drive around.  It was one of the best things I ever did for myself, for my life.  In fact, there is one place - the first place I lived in the city I live now - that holds a lot of pain and confusion from when I was in my early twenties and acting out my anger and pain from childhood that was steadily bubbling to the surface.  I still haven't visited that place yet but I am quite sure that when I am ready to visit, it will be as cathartic an experience as the other *sacred journeys* (I gave it a name) and the memories will surface.  Now I can embrace the memories and embrace the person I was then.   :D

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If your parents have N tendencies, are there ways they behave now that trigger feelings of voicelessness in you? If you can identify those behaviors and understand what’s going on, perhaps it will give you some clues as to what might have happened in your childhood, and help you validate your feelings and then deal with them.


Yes.  So true.  I always wondered where my life long stage fright came from.  I tried to work it out in therapy for a long time and to no avail but this word, "voiceless" is spot on.  This is the key.

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I don’t have children, so feel that I have to make those connections through my own memories.


Same here - my solution was to go back to my childhood homes.  I think there are probably other ways to do it as well.  Having children is probably a real eye-opener.   *And* is probably the real reason my mother is so adamant about me not getting pregnant.   :twisted:  

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I have put boundaries around these memories.I can wait until I am in therapy or in a safe place.


Makes a lot of sense.  I have tended almost all my life to go away somewhere "safe" and *stew* over things.  Putting boundaries around memories sounds like a good idea now to aid in not staying in the past so much to the point of obsession.   Thanks, Feline.


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For one thing, she can never, ever, ever, admit that she is wrong. Even now, if I confront her about her behaviour, she may “apologize,” but within a few minutes she will have come up with a justification, so every “apology” becomes: “I’m sorry (but I was right).”


And a true apology doesn't have a justification at the end.   :x  :x    Most of my blood relatives communicate like this.  When this happens, depending on who I am dealing with I might or might not say something.  In the case of physical abuse being justified, my response is always the same - said directly to the perpetrator - "no child deserves to be slapped and hit" and I kept repeating this line as the apology with the "but" at the end was said over and over again.  Finally, she said, "I will not talk to you again if  you ever bring this up in the future."  Bitch.  But I stood up to her once.  In that case, once is enough.  And you know - talking about forgiveness - I forgave her and told her that but she doesn't feel that she has ever done anything wrong.  She has probably never forgiven herself for a thing so I have to wonder if my words, "I forgive you" were even heard  :?:  More and more, I am thinking that forgiveness doesn't mean much unless one asks for it by words or actions.  Asking for forgiveness and humbling oneself takes courage and integrity.

Thanks for reading and I hope I have helped a bit.  

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I have something worth saying!)


So true, sjkravill.  As one of the other thread is titled, VOICELESS NO MORE.  

~Dawning.
"No one's life is worth more than any other...no sister is less than any brother...."

Anonymous

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2004, 01:32:56 PM »
Dawning, your idea of taking “sacred journeys” to the places you grew up really struck a chord with me.  I think being in those physical places, which I do remember pretty clearly, could well be key in helping me rediscover memories.  Thanks!

Bunny said:

Quote
My view is that it isn't critical to recall events from childhood. What's important (imo) is to access the child within me and give her a chance to be a child now. I do it by letting myself feel the sense of curiosity, wonder, imagination, creativity. Getting to know my likes, dislikes, passions. This is the stuff my parents tried to suppress and replace with their own likes and dislikes. But they didn't get succeed. And they can't stop me anymore.


Rosencrantz said:

Quote
I think the issue is about 'remembering' what made us who we are. Not necessarily 'events' but the whole way we were treated. Events do point the way but our patterns of reacting and dealing with life in the here and now is the real key to the past AND the future.


I’ve been thinking about these comments, Bunny and Rosencrantz, and I can see that in terms of living your life from here on in, what’s important is to figure out who you are and retrieve the feelings that your parents tried to suppress so you can connect with them now.

But I can’t stop wondering why I can’t remember, and I’ve been trying to figure it out.

I know (because she told me) that practically from the day I was born my mother was unhappy in her marriage. She hated her life and wanted to be free, and probably saw her children as the main barriers to her freedom. She pushed me into grade school and then boarding school as early as possible, and started an affair around the time I went to boarding school. When I was 16 she separated from my father, and within a year or so she married her lover and moved to another city, and I never lived with her or had a family home again. She had a new husband, and she was free.

So for the first 12 years of my life I lived with this frustrated, angry, critical person who (I believe) projected her nsecurities and negative feelings about herself onto me, but also (I suspect) demanded that I supply her with the love and comfort she wasn’t getting from my father. Then she sends me away to school, takes up with her lover, and basically abdicates from the role of parent. And except for the actual announcement that my parents were separating, I don’t remember feeling grief, or really any emotion about any of this, but to this day the anticipation of leaving home on a trip causes me huge anxiety, to the point that I haven’t travelled much.

Where did that leave me? I was lost. The person who (I think) for years had told me what I thought and who I was got rid of me. She didn’t need me any more, and I was supposed to stay quietly away, but come to visit now and then and impress everyone so she could show off what a great mother she was. And I did it! I played that role from my teens to my mid-20s, and couldn’t figure out why I felt so alone and why I would get bouts of depression.  

Is it possible that I suppressed my early memories so I could believe the image of her as a wonderful mother who loved me? Maybe it was only by supporting her in that role that I could get whatever crumbs of attention and approval she was willing to throw my way? Because if I dared to challenge her, I was afraid she’d shut me out of her life completely? It’s like she was blackmailing me: “Moving away is just a taste of what I could do to you if you don’t agree that I’m the best mother that ever was.”

Aaaarrrggh!!! You know, I was feeling that maybe she wasn’t so bad, so narcissistic, because the things I could remember didn’t seem all that bad, but the more I think about it the worse it seems. I really hadn’t seen just how much she may have manipulated me to serve her own needs. Am I reading this right? Am I overdramatizing what happened? Am I crazy????

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Wildflower

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2004, 02:44:06 PM »
Hi Guest,

Quote
Then she sends me away to school, takes up with her lover, and basically abdicates from the role of parent. And except for the actual announcement that my parents were separating, I don’t remember feeling grief, or really any emotion about any of this, but to this day the anticipation of leaving home on a trip causes me huge anxiety, to the point that I haven’t travelled much.


Are there any other examples in your current life where you stay where you are because you’re afraid that, if you leave for a minute, things will change dramatically?  Or people will leave?  Or you’ll lose something?

Quote
Aaaarrrggh!!! You know, I was feeling that maybe she wasn’t so bad, so narcissistic, because the things I could remember didn’t seem all that bad, but the more I think about it the worse it seems. I really hadn’t seen just how much she may have manipulated me to serve her own needs. Am I reading this right? Am I overdramatizing what happened? Am I crazy????


From here, it certainly doesn’t look like you’re crazy or overdramatizing.  It looks like you’re listening to yourself.  Your feelings may be all over the place for a while, but keep listening.  You may come back out feeling like she's not so bad, or maybe you'll realize she was, but keep listening to yourself - and allow yourself the freedom to think/feel whatever comes into your heart and mind.

Hang in there,
Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude

rosencrantz

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2004, 03:37:19 PM »
Hi Guest - I'm sure you're not overdramatising and I'm sure you're not crazy.   :D  And I'm also sure it can get quite scary when we start going into these feelings cos they are a child's feelings ie feelings felt without the help of the adult brain and the thinking and the experience that an adult can add to the mix.

But I also think that we truly did believe our mothers were 'perfect' (or pretty much anyway).  So, uncertainties created by our parents are 'felt' as negatives/lacks within ourselves.  We work it out so that it's not the 'out there' that's wrong; it's the 'in here' that must be wrong.  And then we work out the world on the basis of those assumption.   (Except for true Ns in which case what's 'in here' is even worse than what's 'out there', so that they create a new and distorted 'out there' which is the worst yet!!)

Hey, I've been listening to my mother tell me she's the perfect mother for 50 years and only just worked out that the mother from hell coexisted alongside!!!  She kept telling me that I 'thought' she was a terrible mother and blamed her for 'everything'.  'Of course not mother, I don't blame you for anything'  Valiant, loyal!!  Der!  She and I between us made sure I didn't stop long enough to THINK otherwise I might have worked it out.  :shock:  (But then the reality was too much to bear!)

Yes, we sure do want to believe that they notice us, see us, hear us and love us and we'll twist reality round as much as is necessary to make it that way!  :o  When we start to untwist it, what we see is pretty unbearable to the child that's still in us.

I'm not sure whether your mother manipulated you but she didn't seem to see you as a person with needs and feelings to be prioritised over her own interests, except to a limited extent.  

You know, it seems to me that what all these mothers have in common is an irresponsible streak.  Mine included. (Took me a while to get to that one!!!)  Most of them have just opted out for one reason or another.  But I suspect the Four Agreements apply 'Don't take it personally''!  :shock: How could we not!!!

Mine is still bludgeoning me to accept that she was the perfect mother.  It's too much for her to take responsibility for 'just doing the best she could' and admit to/accept the 'emotional' problems she had.  I wouldn't have had half the heartache if she could have just done that. ( :idea: I almost did my usual 'getting confused as to who's who' - ie "Am I projecting? Oh dear, I'd better go and hide in the naughty corner out of everyone's way." - but it seems I've just taken another step forward towards the 'real' reality!!!)
R

PS Yes, CG.  I just saw the need in her to be perfect.
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Anonymous

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2004, 07:18:39 PM »
Thanks, Wildflower and Rosencrantz. A little validation goes a long way!

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But I also think that we truly did believe our mothers were 'perfect' (or pretty much anyway). So, uncertainties created by our parents are 'felt' as negatives/lacks within ourselves. We work it out so that it's not the 'out there' that's wrong; it's the 'in here' that must be wrong. And then we work out the world on the basis of those assumption.


This makes sense to me intellectually, but I can’t quite get it emotionally. I’ll have to think (or rather feel) on it some more.


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You know, it seems to me that what all these mothers have in common is an irresponsible streak.


Was my mother irresponsible? Lots of kids get sent to boarding school. I don’t believe that she should have stayed in an unhappy marriage “for the sake of the kids.” And I’m glad she found a partner the second time around who seems to have suited her a lot better.  So when I look at it, the events themselves are no worse than what millions of other kids have gone through.

The part that drives me nuts is that I feel as though I didn’t get to have an opinion about any of it.  I feel as though I was the target of an advertising campaign – “Of course you want to go to this boarding school, don’t you,” “Marriage wasn’t meant to last,” “Your father and I aren’t angry with each other,” “You’re so mature for your age, you’ll be just fine.” All lies.  But I couldn’t argue. All the rewards I got were for being good, quiet, compliant, “responsible,” “mature”.  Any sign of disagreement, irresponsibility, disobedience, carelessness, wildness, and WHAM – coldness, rejection, disapproval, criticism – and that’s only what I remember. I’m pretty sure that when I was younger it was fury and violence. And the cold disapproval could be about the most innocuous things – like what movie I wanted to see.

She told me once that someone who was a psychologist saw her interacting with us kids when we were young and said to her, “I don’t know what you do to make your kids so obedient, but you must be doing something.”  I think she took it as a compliment.

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Mine is still bludgeoning me to accept that she was the perfect mother. It's too much for her to take responsibility for 'just doing the best she could' and admit to/accept the 'emotional' problems she had. I wouldn't have had half the heartache if she could have just done that.


I've been reading other threads and understand the terrible pain you've felt over this.   :cry:    

Mine has this way of cheerily “admitting” she’s “not perfect,” or as she puts it, “Nobody ever said life was going to be perfect.” But any real questioning of her abilities as a mother she meets with incomprehension.  I once had a conversation with her when I was still hoping I might get through to her. I was trying to be really honest with her, and told her that I experienced a lot of fear in my life – that I felt fearful or anxious a lot of the time. I thought I might get a response like, “That’s too bad,” or “What are you afraid of?” or “Have you always been that way?” and we might talk about it. Here’s what she said: “I never feel fear. I can go anywhere and do anything, and I always feel completely safe and never worry.” I wish I had had the presence of mind to question her more about that, but I felt so completely rejected that I shut up.

Feeling rather shaky – got to go.

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Wildflower

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2004, 07:55:59 PM »
Hi Guest,

As R so smartly put it, these can be scary feelings and thoughts.  The good news is that, while these are childhood moments, we're adults now, and we can be the adults that our parents may not have been for us.

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And I’m glad she found a partner the second time around who seems to have suited her a lot better. So when I look at it, the events themselves are no worse than what millions of other kids have gone through.

The part that drives me nuts is that I feel as though I didn’t get to have an opinion about any of it.


If you could go back and find the voice of that kid watching the divorce, what would you have asked for or wanted?  What I'm hearing (though I may have a bunch of my-own-issue wax in my ears :wink: ) is that your mom found a way to meet her own needs without really taking yours into consideration - understanding how the divorce (and boarding school) affected you, for instance.

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Mine has this way of cheerily “admitting” she’s “not perfect,” or as she puts it, “Nobody ever said life was going to be perfect.”  But any real questioning of her abilities as a mother she meets with incomprehension.


Whenever my mom burned the popcorn (or anything else for that matter - cooking not being her forte  :roll:  :wink: ), she'd say, "I like it that way."  Pretty cool response, huh?  Well, actually, maybe...but for her, it was a way of shrugging off responsibility (instead of saying maybe I'll try to make better popcorn instead of always eating this burnt stuff :lol: - sorry, just realized how sadly funny that is).  It may be that your mom was being honest with you and herself, but the "cheerily" and "incomprehension" bits gave me the impression that this was a defensive stance, as opposed to an acknowledging and accepting one.  I could be way off, though.

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I once had a conversation with her when I was still hoping I might get through to her. I was trying to be really honest with her, and told her that I experienced a lot of fear in my life – that I felt fearful or anxious a lot of the time. I thought I might get a response like, “That’s too bad,” or “What are you afraid of?” or “Have you always been that way?” and we might talk about it. Here’s what she said: “I never feel fear. I can go anywhere and do anything, and I always feel completely safe and never worry.” I wish I had had the presence of mind to question her more about that, but I felt so completely rejected that I shut up.


Here you are turning to your mom (the right person) for help on how to deal with something you're struggling with, and instead of supporting you, she returns a kind of one-two punch in which she not only rejects your feelings, but she talks about herself instead of listening to you.  What are you supposed to do with that other than feel inadequate or wrong or whatever for how you feel?  Mom doesn't feel that way and doesn't even want to talk about it, so what's wrong with me that I feel this way?

I hope you're feeling okay.  No need to respond, but that last paragraph really got me.

Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude

Anonymous

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2004, 09:09:55 PM »
Guest,

Your mom sounds majorly narcissistic. You aren't overreacting at all.

bunny

Wildflower

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2004, 09:44:39 PM »
Hi Guest,

Just another thought.  You say you can't remember anything before age 11, and you feel you've been robbed of 10 years of your life, and you were sent to boarding school at 12.

If you focus on these years and what it must have felt like to be there during that transition, maybe you could expand backwards (and forwards) from that time in your life.

Do you have a strategy for bringing up your childhood memories that reduces some of the anxiety caused by those scary feelings?  I have a method that helps me feel less panicked, but I wondered if you had one, too.

Take care,
Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude

rosencrantz

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2004, 08:38:13 AM »
Just a thought from the other side of the fence!

When I don't 'listen' to my son, it's because I'm worried about what's going to come up in the context of my own 'perceived' inadequacies.  If he's frightened of the dark, I can't admit that I'm frightened, too - I'm an adult and I have to instil confidence in him, otherwise I've failed. (!)  :shock:
 
Ostrich, head, sand???

What's really puzzled me about how I've reacted to my child  is 'why'  when, by contrast, I spend my life 'dragging the truth' out of adults (myself included)!!!!!  

But then a child is not an adult.

'Of course, you're not frightened' = "I don't want you to be frightened and if you insist you're frightened I'm going to get angry because I haven't had more than two consecutive hours' sleep for the past six years and I am desperate.  It's 1am and being frightened of the dark is too big an issue to deal with right now.  My needs are (finally) more important than yours but I think you're old enough to hack it - and if you're not, well, I'm going to collapse under the strain anyway and then I won't be able to look after you at all!  So it's time to bite the bullet. Go back to bed."

I look back and see that from my son's point of view and I'm wracked with guilt; I'm an N!  I see it from my own point of view and I begin to see that I'm a human being with my own 'needs' dealing with a son whose own needs, ironically, have always been diametrically opposed to my own.

But sometimes I don't listen to my son 'just' cos I've got a deadline of some kind or I'm preoccupied with some adult issue like making sure the meal is on the table in time for him to go and play with his friend. Or being at the bus stop in time for library storytelling hour.

It's almost impossible to 'live a life' and be constantly tuned in to a child - and once you stop tuning in, you lose the knack.  Children are often 'objects' to be moved around because ultimately they aren't in a position to make their own life choices, they have to live their life in the context of their parents' lives.  

It's also difficult as a parent to know WHEN the crucial times are to listen to a child.  We don't read minds.  But particular moments will be etched in our children's minds and we will forever be oblivious to the fact that it was an life-altering moment for that child.  Most of the time, parents are just getting on with 'organising' lives rather than 'being' what our children hope we will be.

And so, when the (adult) child is feeling vulnerable - and it still feels like the parent is the one who holds all the cards for our emotional well-being and could cut us off at the knees so easily - then we don't make our parents sit down and KNOW that this is the time to think and feel and acknowledge and care.  But perhaps the parent is then too horrified at what they might have to reveal (to themselves as well as to the child).  

Supposing the hoped for 'of course I love you' turned out to be 'you were an inconvenience'.  Then what?  Do our mothers want to burn the effigy of 'good mother' (unlikely - they're hoping we still haven't found them out!!!) (Un/fortunately, my son found me out a long time ago!  :wink: )

If you want answers, I think you have to be very brave and very strong and consistently ask for times to talk about the past, set our your wares - explain how much you want to understand and then not feel devastated at sighs and rolling eyes and blame.

As I once said here (in my ACON role) 'my pain gets heard, too'!!!  But you've got to be very, very determined in your own mind before you can begin to make yourself heard.  And are you prepared for the pain the answers might bring?

And can you ask the questions behind the questions? (ie the question(s) that you really want to ask???)  Not about her mothering abilities, not about your fear - but about what love means to you and what love means to her and how it gets expressed.

Hmmm - that was one of those 'channelling' moments - it might be useful, but if not, please ignore!!!

Hugs
R
"No matter how enmeshed a commander becomes in the elaboration of his own
thoughts, it is sometimes necessary to take the enemy into account" Sir Winston Churchill

Anonymous

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2004, 03:24:46 PM »
Wow, R, how did you know?? After my last post I was shaking – tried to calm down and moved right into a major attack of doubt and guilt – that I’m twisting everything to make her sound worse than she is, that I was just a timid child and I’m blaming her for that, and why am I gnawing at all this stuff years later when I can’t change the past and really the only point here is to live a full and satisfying life and I’m free to do that anyway? Guilt, guilt, guilt!

Then you come along like a fresh breeze and speak the truth, as a mother, which is somewhere in the middle – yes, she probably ignored my needs, but no, she didn’t do it intentionally or maliciously, because she was just getting through her own life, which wasn’t all that great.  It really helped me get centered again, so thanks. I’ll probably have to go back to that shaky place again, but I think it will help me if I can try to hang on to the middle ground at the same time.  

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If you want answers, I think you have to be very brave and very strong and consistently ask for times to talk about the past, set our your wares - explain how much you want to understand and then not feel devastated at sighs and rolling eyes and blame.

As I once said here (in my ACON role) 'my pain gets heard, too'!!! But you've got to be very, very determined in your own mind before you can begin to make yourself heard.  


Yes, you’re quite right that if I want answers, I have to ask very clearly and strongly for time to talk about this stuff, and be prepared for rejection.  In fact, I’m very aware that NOT asking clearly is a family tradition – everyone was supposed to know everyone else’s needs and feelings without asking or being told.

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And are you prepared for the pain the answers might bring?


I have to think about that one, but what I expect is denial, so honesty might be a relief.

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And can you ask the questions behind the questions? (ie the question(s) that you really want to ask???) Not about her mothering abilities, not about your fear - but about what love means to you and what love means to her and how it gets expressed.


I think I do know something about what love means to her – it means an absence of boundaries, especially within the family. Intellectually she seems able to grasp the idea that, for example, you can’t read people’s minds, but emotionally she doesn’t get it.  A couple of years ago she was complaining to me that she had phoned up her sister and said she’d like to come over to visit the next afternoon, and her sister had said that wasn’t a good time because she was having guests over for tea.  My mother said she felt really hurt. So I said, “Why do you feel hurt? All she said was, it wasn’t a good time for you to come because she’s having other guests.” And she said, “But I’m not a guest, I’m family. I should be able to go and help her serve the tea.” I tried to get her to see that just because you were family, it didn’t mean you should automatically be welcome 24 hours a day, but she didn’t get it.  Maybe I need to try tackling the boundary issue again.  

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Your mom sounds majorly narcissistic. You aren't overreacting at all.

Bunny, thanks for the support. Yeah, I think she is. Just have to remember she didn’t do these things to hurt me, but because she was in pain herself.  

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Whenever my mom burned the popcorn (or anything else for that matter - cooking not being her forte   ), she'd say, "I like it that way." Pretty cool response, huh? Well, actually, maybe...but for her, it was a way of shrugging off responsibility (instead of saying maybe I'll try to make better popcorn instead of always eating this burnt stuff  - sorry, just realized how sadly funny that is). It may be that your mom was being honest with you and herself, but the "cheerily" and "incomprehension" bits gave me the impression that this was a defensive stance, as opposed to an acknowledging and accepting one.


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I hope you're feeling okay.


Thanks, Wildflower. The kind of denial tactic your mom used sounds very familiar to me (and sadly funny is a perfect description of it). I do feel that the “admitting she’s not perfect” is defensive, not really accepting. It’s like, “I know I’m not perfect, so you don’t have to say it, in fact, kindly DON’T say it, in fact, it would be really MEAN of you to say it because I’ve already SAID I’m not perfect!”

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Are there any other examples in your current life where you stay where you are because you’re afraid that, if you leave for a minute, things will change dramatically? Or people will leave? Or you’ll lose something?

If you could go back and find the voice of that kid watching the divorce, what would you have asked for or wanted?

Do you have a strategy for bringing up your childhood memories that reduces some of the anxiety caused by those scary feelings? I have a method that helps me feel less panicked, but I wondered if you had one, too.


I’m still thinking about your good questions and suggestions in your last couple of posts. Please tell me about your method for bringing up memories with less anxiety -- I don't have a strategy, and it would be really helpful.

Got a big work project coming up so I may not be back here so often for a while. I'll try to drop in to other threads. Thanks again, everyone.

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Wildflower

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What if you can't remember much of your childhood?
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2004, 08:47:23 PM »
Hi Guest,

Before confronting your parents with questions, I’d just like to suggest that you get yourself as firmly planted as possible – because if your mom’s anything like my parents, one answer from her may have you spinning back into self-doubt.  Put differently, I’d be less worried about finally getting an honest (though painful) answer from her than I would about getting a response that brings my newly found understanding of the world to its knees.  You know what I mean?

So…coping with raw, unresolved childhood memories – as safely as possible.  Gonna have to take you down straight-jacket lane to explain my split-personality strategy, so buckle up.   :wink:  :lol: :D

What if you could go back in time and be a fly on the wall and watch what was going on during your childhood? That’d be great, wouldn’t it?  You’d know exactly what happened, who was right, who was wrong.  Too bad it’s impossible.

But what if you could go back in time and be the adult you are now and ask the child you were then what was going on?  Well, you can’t go back in time, but I believe that anything we don’t resolve as children stays with us into adulthood – to be dealt with when we are ready.  So bring that child into the present and give her someone to talk to (you) who is finally capable of giving her unconditional love (and whatever else she needs).

By giving that child unconditional love, and by giving her the time to express herself, and by asking the questions no one cared to ask, you’re setting up a safe place to explore her feelings.  In the end, your feelings.  

Let her be immature – because she is.  Ask her what happened.  Allow her to respond in childish ways.  Give her a chance to tell her story without being shot down or rejected or ignored.  Listen until her tears are dry and her story is finished.  Allow her to feel the way she feels.  No matter what.

For example, it’s okay (albeit horrible and scary and disorienting) for that little girl to say your mom’s a monster.  You may have to allow her to think your mom's a monster in order to get at WHY she thinks she's a monster. And you don’t have to interrupt that child’s story by reminding her what you know as an adult – that parenting is difficult and that parent’s have needs too.  Not unless it’s part of helping her heal and see that it wasn’t personal or intentional.  {EDIT: Not suggesting your mom's a monster.  It's just one of the harder things to imagine sometimes, so I thought I'd used it as an example.}

And be assured that you, the adult, will be mature again once it’s time to go back out into the world.

In addition to thinking in terms of unconditional love, I find it helpful to pull in one of the Four Agreements here and assume nothing (at first) about this child brought up into the present.  It helps me forget what I’ve been told about myself and really listen to her.  Of course, if you decide this strategy isn’t too looney and you actually want to use it, you’ll probably want to make sure you have a couple of hours to yourself in a safe place before trying this.  She might have a lot to say. :wink:  :D

Well, that’s my strategy – and it has allowed me to put some memories to rest while recovering others.  Don’t know if it’ll be helpful to you – or whether you’ll turn me over to the state mental hospital  :wink: – but there it is.  Actually, there's probably some explanation of this process in some textbook somewhere - or maybe it's one of those things that's so obvious that everyone knows about it and just doesn't talk about it.  So if that's the case, sorry to be so thick. :wink:

Take care and good luck,
Wildflower
If you want to sing out, sing out
And if you want to be free, be free
'Cause there's a million ways to be, you know that there are
-- Cat Stevens, from the movie Harold and Maude