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What would happen if we didn't fight them?

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rosencrantz:
Supposing we gave in?

What would happen???

What's the worst that could happen??

I hear lots of you fighting your parents.  What are you fighting FOR?  Please share that with me, because I really do want to hear your perspective.

I've had a crazy couple of months since I last spoke to my mother, reeling from one of her irrational 'rages' that nearly finished me off, and then discovered this 'N' thing (can it be such a short amount of time?!) which put into words all my fears about her 'power' over me. And then finding websites, then reading book after book after book, and then discovering that there are so many people experiencing the same thing - all of them in a different time warp (ie nobody close to home)!
 
I've climbed back up to some kind of sanity, sometimes I 'forget' what she does, and sometimes I still wonder 'Is it me? Did I do that?  Did I cause all of that?'  But then...think...what about the things that happened to me...

What about you?

I think I'm fighting for my sanity, to be free of someone else's harmful projections. But I can't stop my mother doing that to me - this unconscious stuff happens without us knowing until it's too late...

I'm fighting for a space in which I can exist without being controlled, or blamed, or 'tortured'.  But it's unlikely she will stop trying unless I control her.

I'm fighting my own preparedness to be a masochistic punch bag to 'contain' her rages and help her 'get better'.  Because this is far greater than I ever anticipated and I don't have the strength or the training or the support to be able to do it.

But that means the 'get out and keep out' clause still rules.

So here I am still banging my head against a brick wall.  My mother is alone.  And I feel for her all sorts of pain that she's probably never felt for herself because all the pain she inflicts on other people is what keeps HER pain at bay.

I have been so intolerant of my mother - because I didn't understand - and inflicted pain on her in return - but mostly because I've been so darned frightened of what she can do to me, and terrorised by her inability to cope with letting me go (even for a day, even for an hour).

So every time we meet, we clash - her shame, my fear.

So now I'm wondering why I'm asking you this question if I know the answer...but that's my answer - what's yours???  I really would like to know...
R

Neko:
I forget exactly when I first learned about NPD (although I get the distinct feeling I posted about it before... :) ), but it was under similar circumstances. I'd just started to pull myself out of depression and anxiety problems after leaving home and being married for a few years - having realized that it was getting away from my parents and being accepted for who I was, for better or for worse, that had "allowed" me to let my anger, guilt, shame, fear, etc. surface. My parents made as much of a surprise visit as is possible when you have to cross an ocean by air, and they hadn't got a hotel room or anything... so they stayed with us in our one-bedroom apartment for a full three weeks.

:| :shock: :cry:

I was such a mess, it was awful. I couldn't believe my parents couldn't see it. After the first week I slowly started to get a hold of myself and calm down - a bit. Would you believe that it was right then that my mother rose to attack? Gracious did she ever attack. Out of the blue, during the one moment I was alone with her and my father. We were in a rental car, I was in the passenger seat giving directions and my mother was sitting behind me. On the highway (the freaking highway!!) she started crying and saying, "Your father and I are so sad, dear. So very sad." I asked why, knowing full well I was in for a bad experience - bad would be an understatement.

She proceeded to accuse me of continually getting angrier and angrier with them throughout the week that they'd been there, and that it was totally obvious. Recall that I had actually calmed down. I said nothing, and she began screaming - really, really screaming. When I still didn't respond, she started punching and kicking the back of my seat, and my father joined in the screaming!! I was frightened for my life - we were going just under a hundred miles an hour, on a highway, in a country they were totally unfamiliar with! And all they could think about was getting to me!

Twenty minutes later we pulled over for lunch. They were calm and all smiles. I excused myself to phone my husband - they asked why I'd been crying on the phone, and started talking about what a wonderful ride we'd had through the countryside, and how helpful I'd been. I honestly felt murderous.

That was when I started looking for something, anything that would explain this craziness. Was it my fault? Had I just "exaggerated"? Was I blowing events out of proportion? I confronted my parents after getting home, with my husband at my side, and told them to never treat me like that again. They replied, "What are you talking about?" To make a long story short, I eventually got my point across. Anyway, it was the websites and forums on NPD that convinced me: such similar experiences and emotions, everything struck a chord.

I forget what my mother does too. It's a huge weakness of mine - but a survival technique too. That day, though, I made a pact with myself to never forget. Let slide the anger and pain, certainly, but never forget that my mother had done this to me. Not to mention the whole endometriosis story - you know, I was so shaken when I read what I had written here, having the words in front of me I could not understand why I'd ever made excuses for mother's treatment.

You don't need to control your mother - you can't. You can have more control of your own life, and set boundaries (of course you know that!). But in order for those boundaries to have some meaning, there has to be space - that's my opinion, anyway. As soon as my mother's within physical reach of me, my boundaries no longer mean squat. She only respects them from afar because she thinks that she earns points that way, and that she can cash in those points to get to me later.

I feel pain for her too, her father was emotionally and psychologically abusive. But that doesn't change the fact that she abused me and would abuse again in a second. I can do nothing to lessen her pain. Goodness knows I tried as a child - she sucked it all up, told me she loved me, then turned around and walloped me another one. No more.

Honestly, after writing this, I wonder why I even keep telephone contact with her?? Oh, it's the "family" thing. So few people understand the need to completely cut off contact with family...

Nic:
Oh Rosencrantz! I sure appreciate your writing skills, your style! I felt the exasperation by reading you today.  I often feel the same way, perhaps without as much "urgency" as you.  I think i'm calmer about it but by no means less exasperated than you.
A few posts ago, Tinkergirl wrote me about my trying to figure out my parents and how it was a complete waste of time.  I really think that's true! She went on to say that it was keeping me from the wonderful person that I am..now that was soothing, very generous and loving from a complete stranger.  I maintain that it is a myth that perfect love and acceptance can only be arrived at through the family, my and surely your relationship with your parents clearly demonstrate that.  It's not so much "giving up" as you say or "giving in", it's about moving on.  
I figure God gave me a life and a purpose, i've admitted to having been "drugged" in a way by my parents, hypnotized, abused to the point of losing myself to them.  I must now conclude that after years of taking it upon myself  to know, to find out, to seek the truth, that my relationship with my parents and indeed with my family has not been about me at all.  But about them..Neko really brings that all together in her post.
There are our N parents, wanting to be worshipped by us even after almost killing our souls.  And here we are trying to get approval and love from them knowing full well that we'll never get it.  It's not time to give up, it's time to grow away, to sow seeds in our own lives and in our own futures.
Acceptance perhaps would be a better word.  I have to accept that my parents are not well ( polite isn't it!) I have to acknowledge that statistically it is impossible for me to always be the cause of every wrong that ever happened to them or my family.  I have to make a choice.  Do I want "in" or do I want "out"?  I know what staying in is all about..a continued life or misery,  guilt, half-truths, wondering, anxiety, hyper-responsibility, hyper-sensitivity, denying myself, giving and never receiving..existing and never BEING.  It is wrong.  I must become responsible and a responsible adult  takes care of him or herself, not only for surviving this Earth and all it's challenges and problems but to enjoy my God given life.  
No matter what anybody says, I am not treating myself well by continuing a one-way relationship with my parents.  As i've said before  I would have loved to have a relationship with my parents, instead I ended up with a service contract with them.  That's it, store is closed, no more!  And yes it hurts to waive goodbye to what could have been.  I'm sure that my parents, in their illness, cannot and would not identify with anything i've written here.
When my parents decided to launch an attack on the core of my being, by solliciting legal help, fomenting lies and confabulating horrible stories about my wife and I in order to maintain control over me/us, they crossed the line..the very demarcated spot where parental love and so called concern turned into an indecent display of total disrespect of my sovereign right to live.   God gave me life, not them, He is sovereign over me, not them.  
There comes a time in ones life I believe when things become crystal clear.When it's over it's over, and you'll know it Rosencrantz.  I think Neko knows it and it is very consoling to feel through your written word Neko the peace that surrounds your resolve.
A terminal situation is just that, terminal, bound to die, nothing left to be done but wait for that death.  And then, life dictates that we must move on.  It's the waiting for the death, that space between the end of a relationship that was once meaningful and the begining of the rest of my life that is filled with turmoil.  I have to walk through that fire, that horrible disaster that my life has been thus far.  I am not responsible for what was done to me as a child..all the literature and every post and web-site will validate us on this.. But I am responsible for what happens to me as an adult.
Rosencrantz, I want to reiterate how absolutely wonderful you are.  You are so alive, frantically so at times but alive..so sincere, it shows.  Wont you join me in celebrating that , you've go chutzbah madam, you've got the spark..ignite your own fire and stop fanning your mother's flame.  I tell myself that often..in fact the other day i said to my wife i've got to stop this guilt thing.  We've outgrown our parents' expectations of us Rosencrantz, let's not feel guilty about that.
My parents have become a bad habit, therein the toxicity...i'm in parental detox.  So I need a time-out.  So they are 76 and 80 respectively..too bad. I've become unavailable.  When i was a child and they took away my voice, I wasn't given the choice much less a warning that they were no longer available to me.  Without being vengeful, I ask myself why Nic do you think they deserve an explanation? Why do you need to gift wrap everything for them?
I'm on a roll and it's called recovery, i've got choices to make and I feel better about taking risks now.
I stumbled onto this website and the whole idea of voicelessness and NPD like you.  It's had a drain-o effect on my psyche.It's opened doors that were waiting to be opened.
Don't get too discouraged.  It's great to know we can reach out to this site isn't it?
Nic :cry:  :oops:  :P  :x  :roll:  :wink: --all of those..tears of joy, tears of wonder, tears of exasperation, tears of satisfaction and hope!

mary:
I have quietly stepped away from my N mother in law.  When I learned that she is N it was a relief to know and to grow in understanding as to what that means.  I have had two therapist tell me to protect myself from being hurt by her.  It has been wonderful to pull away.  She still moves from crisis to crisis but I am away from it and now I don't have to wonder about what she is trying to manipulate me to do next.  It is a relief.

mcg31360:

Dear Rosencrantz:
All of us have been where you're at  at one time or another. Sad to say, we will probably continue to be there off and on throughout our lives, because WE, unlike the Ns, have empathy! It seems the Ns depend on it and use us because of it. I stumbled across this sight  just as many others have and thank God every day that I did! Sometimes I laugh at the posts. Other times I cry my eyes out. But ALWAYS, I am grateful to be in such good company! There are still good days and bad days, but most of the time I can pick myself up and count the blessings in my life. That's more than I could do while enmeshed with my Nfamily. My cousin killed herself five years ago, and my heart aches to this day over that. There were many times I felt like I wanted to do the same. I don't feel like that anymore! That's progress. Every day I put one foot infront of the other and continue to forge ahead. With everything that's gained, there's something lost. I figure I didn't lose what I NEVER had!

Cathi :wink:

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