Author Topic: Comments please on what this 3,500 word email from my NSister does to you...  (Read 8993 times)

Tweety

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What they don't remember, and what we painfully remember is that every time we made an attempt - they pushed us further away.  They need us to try to get close so they can keep pushing us away.  It is a sick dynamic that is most characteristic of my family's dynamic.


 Bean,
Oh how I can relate to this twisted sick  cycle. I was caught up in that for years. Always made me try harder.......ukkkkkkkkkkkk so glad I'm out of that.
(((((((((((((Janet)))))))))))) so sorrry for all your pain
Love Tweety

Hopalong

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I used to yearn for a sister...
 :(

Do they have any idea what precious friendship, loyalty and lifelong allies they SQUANDER when they treat their sisters this way? As adults, even??

 :shock: :(

I am so grateful for good women friends and the people on this forum.

love to all of you, sisters,

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

JanetLG

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Dandylife,

Thanks for your response.

I'm really sorry you had two miscarriages. I know they can 'just happen', but they're still very difficult to come to terms with, aren't they?

The thing about my sister's miscarriage is so complicated. My NMum always told us (when we were little) not to have children as they ruin your life, etc, etc, and I internalised that, and thought *I* didn't want children, till I was in my early forties (too late now...). But, when my sister got pregnant, it was my *NMUM* who came out with all the 'what on earth did you do that for, you're mad, you're stupid'...comments as soon as  she was told about the pregnacny.  I just said 'That's great' kind of stuff (like normal people do, you know?) Amazingly, by the next week, history had been re-written, my NMum had had to re-invent her response, and BOTH of them now claimed it had been *ME* that had said the 'you're stupid to have got pregnant' comments.

Very strange, and so frustrating to counteract, as only the three of us had been present when the original comments had been said - and they out-numbered me!

Bean,

Oooh, *two* sisters and an NMum!! How awful! One sister like this is quite enough!

With the family therapy sessions...it wasn't even *me* that had wanted to start them.. My NMum said I should get family therapy 'to learn how to fit into the family better' as that's what she thought family therapy was. I did it because I was desperate to calm her down (we just kept having screaming matches at that time). I had 6 sessions just with the therapist, then wrote to each FOO member, asking them to come to two, two-hour sessions on consecutive nights, to discuss the issues. They each 'agreed' to come, grudgingly.

But at the end of the second group session, it was so clear that 'healing' wasn't going to take place, that the therapist, a bit out of his depth, I think, said to me 'What on earth are you going to DO?'

I told him (in front of them) that I wasn't going to put myself through all this any more, and that I was going to stop seeing them from now on  - so that was a very public way of starting NC.

So, even though I *hadn't * known about my sister's threatened miscarriage, etc, I HAD STARTED NC BY THEN!!! I DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING!! WHY SHOULD I STILL HAVE TO BE IN TOUCH WITH THEM??

This is the bit my sister had the most trouble with, I think. She never respected my boundaries, so she thought *I* should still be interested in *her*, even though I'd made it quite clear I wasn't.

I tend to call my sister 'Joan's daughter' now, because she's like a clone of my NMum. Also, 'Joan's daughter', as a term of relationship, doesn't have to include me any more, because I don't see my NMum as my mother - that's why I referred to her as 'Joan' not 'my mum' in my letter to Alf. She's just a person, separate from me, not my mother.


Tweety,

The pulling/pushing drives you crazy, doesn't it? When you stop bothering to try to get their attention, it knocks them completely off-balance  :twisted:  Not that they were ever 'on-balance', but you know what I mean.

Hops,

Yes, I'd like to have a sister


Janet

JanetLG

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Bean,

I think the family therapist was incredibly out of his depth - he was used to dealing with *children* in families that were having problems, like divorcing parents, school refusing, that kind of thing. Not that I'm saying those aren't problems too, but to have five *adults* in his room, with all the baggage that we brought with us, was just too much for him, really. I don't think he knew about N then (1994). It's only been recognised about that long, anyway.

"I imagine they have long chats about how I'm not around and "its so wrong"

I KNOW that my family do this, because my Dad (who I still see, and has been targetted over the years by them almost as much as I have) tells me - I wish he wouldn't, but he still does. He doesn't get Nism at all. They must have such empty lives, to still be doing this 13 years after I started NC.

My husband says one simple way to 'encourage me back in' would have been simply  to....be nice! But that's beyond them. They think, if they keep telling you how AWFUL you are, you'll see the light, and apologise. How strange! :shock:

I've had the 'if you were a 'true sister' stuff, too. What on earth is a 'true sister'?

I've got better 'true sisters' on this forum, actually!!

It HAS been more painful than I thought it would be, but it's been so helpful to have validation from sensible, adult women who know what I'm talking about....at last!

I think I'll be able to lay it to rest now (after I've had the ceremonial burning, of course)

Janet

Tweety

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Janet,
I just wanted you to know that I wish I could give you input on this sorta sister thing, but I have no sisters or brothers.
I have to agree with you though "true sister" wouldn't be anything remotely resembling there behavior.
Love Tweety

finding peace

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Hi Janet,

It is so hard when they gang up - they just reinforce each other ad nauseaum until you feel like you are beating your head against a wall.  It is impossible.  For me it was my mother, father, and brother.  With all 3 of them letting me know by every action and word that I was less than nothing, on some level (although I fought it constantly - which most likely got me the "D" label), I believed them.  While I recognize their pattern of behavior for what it was, I am finding it very hard to get rid of that old belief.

(I was sent to T by my parents because I was so "D" to live with - went to 2, both Ts told me to get out of that house and not look back - I was pretty young :shock: - wish I'd listened sooner.)

I am sorry that posting the letter was hard, thank you for posting - it helps to know (although I wouldn't wish this on anyone) that I am not alone. (((((Janet)))))

Now, how about a party to burn that letter - I'll bring the fire.....




Peace 
- Life is a journey not a destination

JanetLG

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Tweety,

Thanks for the input anyway, Tweety. In a normal family, I suppose having sisters, brothers, or being an 'only child' is irrelevant if you're loved for what you are.

I think what I've got is an 'untrue sister'.

Janet

JanetLG

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Peace,

Yes, I wouldn't wish this on anyone either, but if discussing the issue helps anyone else, 'then it's all been worthwhile', as they say!

It's helped me no end.

Thanks for the fire. I'll bring the matches and the petrol.

And the baking potatoes.

Janet

JanetLG

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S+Safe,

That's quite an eye-opener for me. I suppose we don't talk much about N sisters. But it's the N sisters that are likely to grow up to be the next 'batch' of N mothers. So perhaps we should talk about them more (if we can face it).

What was your nazi-sister like? (love the description  :twisted: )

Janet

Isobel

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What did the therapist say when you all went for counselling together?  Whose side was he on? Why didnt' it work?

JanetLG

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Bean,

The description of your therapy sessions sounds horrendous (but quite similar to mine). It must have been really traumatic for you. What a dreadful family to have to put up with! NC is essential when there's a family like ours, isn't it?

I think your therapist was completely out of order to have *ever* allowed your parents to have visited him , behind your back. After all, YOU were paying him to see YOU. At the very least, he should have asked your opinion before seeing them separately from you. No wonder you lost trust in him!

When I had family therapy, I did feel this man was a bit, well, 'new' to family therapy, and a bit out of his depth. I showed him letters my NMum and NSister had written to me, and he read them while I watched him, and he was stunned. He kept saying 'did this incident really happen?' , and I'd have to tell him how they twisted things to make me look evil (that was one of my NMum's favourite descriptions of me 'wicked and evil'.

Anyway, when we had the two group sessions, the therapist video'd them, without giving the rest of them the option of it happening (I knew he was going to do it). My NMUm and Nsister were very uncomfortable with that. The therapist started the session by getting eaach person to 'introduce themselves' to him, and say how they felt the family was now, how it used to be, and what they saw as ' the problem'. They all said *I* was the problem, except for my Dad (who I still see), who said 'the argument between Joan and Janet is the problem, because it's not getting sorted out' (he's always said it's 'AN argument', as if it's just one incident, although reallly that was just the last straw - there's bound to be a 'final' argument, isn't there?

I'd already discussed with the therapist in the sessions I had had with him alone, that I would have to introduce the 'painful' subjects for discussion myself, so it didn't look as if I'd been 'telling tales' to the therapist first - it had to look 'natural'. It was really hard to start talking about my anorexia, my dad's alcoholism, and my mum's affairs, in front of everyone, as we'd NEVER talked about these important things before, EVER. I'd had anorexia for 12 years, and been over it for 7 years, and yet no-one in my family had ever said the word 'anorexia' before. :shock: The therapist was very even-handed, although I think that, privately, he was 'on my side' but in a professional sense. I was paying him, so his 'loyalty' was to me, to try to get *my* mental health to be better.

At the end of the frst session, we all left, and each made a dash for our cars, not wanting to talk in the car park (very uncomfortable).

On the next evening, when we got there for the second session, we had to wait for 20 minutes in the waiting room, as the therapist was running late. I do think this was really bad planning on his part. As you said, Bean, the N's use this time to get the knife in. I was waiting for my Dad to arrive, and asked where he might be. My NMum then calmly said 'he's not coming. He doesn't think it's worth it' (meaning YOU'RE not worth it). It turned out later, that, after the first sesion, my mum and dad had gone home and had the most blazing row ever about her affairs, as they'd never discussed that before. This instigated their divorce a year later. I was blamed for this. My dad now has a lovely 'ladyfriend', though, so I think it was worthwhile, on the whole.

So, we started the second session with a very bad feeling in the air. My dad had supported me quite a lot in the first session, and I did feel 'on my own'. The other three (I have a brother, too, who was there, but I realise I hardly ever mention him!) all sat together, and I sat apart from them.

We covered what might happen in the future, and how the family dynamic might be altered by structuring the 'Sunday visits' to my Mum's house differently (she expected us always to visit her, all the adult children, plus partners, every week without fail, which was a huge area of contention between us).

It got very heated, and my Mum and sister started shouting at me. On the video, I just look terrified, and very small. I'd really 'retreated' to protect myself. When the therapist said 'what are you going to do?' It just made me say what I'd thought for ages - 'I've had enough, and I'm not going to put myself through this any more. That's it, finished.' We wrapped up the session, and I walked out in tears.

He posted me the videos a few days later, with a letter saying they were MINE, and it was up to me whether I allowed the others to ever see it  - possibly if they were willing to discuss things later, he thought the videos might be useful (DISCUSS? With an N?? I did say he didn't understand).

My dad asked to see the second video, as he hadn't been there, and I let him see that one, although I warned him that we did continue discussing the alcoholism and the affairs, so he might find it painful, which he did.

The sessions cost me about £350 altogether, for 6 sessions on my own, and 2 group sessions, which I thought at the time was a lot for ME to have to pay.

Now, I think it was a bargain, as it made me realise I had to go NC (that was 13 years ago).

Does that answer your question, Isobel, or have I waffled?

Janet

Ami

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hearing about these therapy sessions-- Janet's and Bean's--- just shows me HOW resistant the N family is to change. IOW-- how HOPELESS it is.
  Thank you Janet and Bean for sharing this.
                                            Love    Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

JanetLG

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Ami,

The *situation* was very definitely hopeless, but it did do me some good in that it made it clear as day that they weren't going to change. I think it would have taken me a lot longer, otherwise, to have worked out what I needed to do (this was 13 years ago, and there was no internet then).


Janet

Hopalong

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(((((((((((((((((((((((Janet))))))))))))))))))))))))))

How very, very brave you were, to make it all happen.

I am glad you got this chance to have the truth exposed to light and air.

Sending you love,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

JanetLG

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CB,

Thanks for that. I think you must be a very special mother to be able to resolve things with an adult child and not feel 'attacked'.

Hops,

I certainly didn't *feel* brave - I seemed to spend years in tears. I couldn't have done it without my husband's support. He believed me from the word go, and could always put the 'normal person's perspective' on any N conversation that I'd experienced. Even though he had a tough upbringing himself (his mother suddenly walked out one day when he was 8, and he didn't see her again till he was 29).


Janet