Author Topic: No Contact  (Read 2674 times)

Starfish

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No Contact
« on: August 22, 2007, 05:51:45 PM »
When those of you went to No Contact with an Nmom, did you tell them it was "no contact, and why" or did you just stop all contact and never say why?
"To thine own self be true" Shakespeare (Polonius tells Laertes)

Bella_French

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Re: No Contact
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2007, 04:21:50 AM »
Hi Starfish,

I'd suggest that you do whatever feels comfortable for you. Personally, I do not think you owe her an explanation for your boundaries. But  an explanation might clarify things. I hate explaining myself to Narcissists. It feels as though explaining my feelings is just giving them ammunition with which to hurt me. So i tend to just do what I want to do.


X bella



 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2007, 04:24:43 AM by Bella_French »

JanetLG

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Re: No Contact
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2007, 06:17:50 AM »
Starfish,

I told mine at the end of family therapy sessions, when it became clear nothing would ever change. But she didn't understand, never will.

It might make YOU feel better to explain, but it'll just give them more ammunition to attack you with. I wouldn't say it was a mistake, but it didn't help, either.

I have no intention of ever talking to her again (after 13 years, now).


Janet

Certain Hope

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Re: No Contact
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2007, 08:42:48 AM »
Starfish,

I've decided that a formal announcement would only create more turmoil for everyone involved... especially my children.
But then it's been 8 years since my relationship of active enmeshment with my mother ended... when I met npd-ex... and for nearly 7 of those years, I've been 1,000 miles away from her.
I believe that she really knows why, but in her mind, she's rationalized it all by attributing it to my being "strong-willed". That's the way she thinks of me, I believe. A strong-willed child.
Through these years, she and my dad have written to my kids and me every week.
I've written twice, I think.
She doesn't phone much... getting voice mail is offensive to her, I guess... so that's not been a great problem. I've called 3-4 times, I think.
Of course, that was before I'd really looked the whole mess squarely in the eye, and so it was just a continuation of my old avoidant style.

I'm not sure whether any deep change in that style is necessary at this point. Telling N the "whys" does no good, imo. They're supreme in the universe, you know, and so such common human reasoning is beneath their dignity.
On the other hand, I can see the good in addressing current, specific examples of their affrontery. Good for us, their children, I mean.
My mother is 81 and in very poor health now... and frankly, I'm afraid that if I launch a formal "no contact", I will be haunted at some point.
Also, I've not had to deal with such blatantly mean and hateful behavior as many of the other members here. She's never done anything quite like what your m did with your dogs... I was so sad to read that. On the other hand, I feel quite sure that she'd like to dispose of my current, wonderful husband, if it were within her power to do so. I've sensed her strong drive to curse, and definitely not to bless, me and my life... especially lately in her dire predictions that I will suffer the many ailments that she's enduring, all in good time.
Now there's one I'd like to address with her. "No, I won't, mother, because I refuse to be a miserable, self-centered, hateful human being."

Anyhow, I'm trying to choose to view any future contacts with her as opportunities... ack... because I am getting just a glimpse of how that could work. These mothers will never satisfy the deep longing for unconditional love and acceptance which children have. But before I was even able to recognize that need, I was aware of something else that was always missing... and that is for her to know me. She has refused to know me and that's a factor I can do something about. I can say, "this is me, this is who I am", but I can only do that as I remain detached from the outcome and don't expect anything in return.  For me, I feel that's a step I need to take, bit by bit, beginning with addressing the attitudes she's expressed toward my husband and children.

I don't know how or whether that would work for you, Starfish, but I can sure relate to you beginning a new life in marriage and wanting to package up some old messes. My husband has been a big help to me through this, as much as I haven't wanted to hear some of what he's said. His mother threw him out of the house at 16 and he lived with his Grandma, who told him,
"Well... you only have one mother."     ugh
I asked him the other day, "so how do you deal with her?"
He says, "I'm honest with her."
And then I understood what part of his honesty with her looks like...  often he doesn't return her calls. Sometimes he'll pick up... but only when he feels like it. He'll send cards and gifts, but he doesn't expect anything from her in the way of understanding and so he doesn't engage too closely.
I see him living it out and I think, hey, I can do that... because I understand that the pain and resentment spring out of unmet expectations. Having identified alot of my feelings toward my mother and purged them, I hope to be able to handle it as he does, because now I'm seeing it not as avoidance, but as minimizing the drama... pure simplicity.

Sorry for the length of this... first time I've tried to put it into words : )
But maybe it will help some... just another perspective.

Best wishes!

Hope


Ami

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Re: No Contact
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2007, 09:21:11 AM »
Dear Friend,
   I was thinking about your cry for help-- all night. In my opinion, a person does have to go "no contact". The reason is that your mother becomes very familiar. Your reality gets skewed by them. You become part of the 'psychosis" as Vaknin says.
 When you get away from her, then you can see JUST how destructive it was. I am in shock ,now,b/c I SEE it. She pulls me in when I have contact with her and I DON"T see it.
  I want so badly to think that she is O.K., that I start lying to myself. I slowly become part of her reality b/c I want the connection so,very badly.
  I agree with Janet about NC. I used to think that it was a "little hard",but we are dealing with a killer disease--- NPD. It destroys. We have to play hard ball,back(IMO)                         Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Poppyseed

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Re: No Contact
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2007, 11:51:35 AM »
Hello Starfish!

Imo, any explanation to N's is ammunition and will only be used against you.  My H and I have tried to set boundaries verbally many times over the years.  It has never fruited anything.  It only backfires on us.  My experience tells me that you can set the boundary, what ever degree of contact feels right to you, without telling them directly.  They will never understand or see logic or empathy for why you feel the way you do.  Sounds like to me, you have been through such horror.  I can't imagine anything for you but stict NC.  But I am sure I don't know enough to be positive. You deserve to be able to create safety for yourself and those people in your life don't sound like they deserve that kind of access to your feelings and thoughts.  They need to feel that shut door and bang all they want while you enjoy the warmth of the fire and cup of cocoa on the inside!

--Poppy

Iphi

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Re: No Contact
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2007, 12:15:58 PM »
Thank you for sharing your story of losing and finding your family starfish.  I'm so happy for you that you are surrounded by love and abundance now.   :D

On a different board I read, one of the posters writes something that I think is totally wise and wish I knew it years ago.  She says, do not JADE.

It stands for:

Do not Justify your actions
Do not Argue about your boundaries
Do not Defend yourself about your actions
Do not Explain what you are doing etc.

Because that is how you get sucked in.
Character, which has nothing to do with intellect or skill, can evolve only by increasing our capacity to love, and to become lovable. - Joan Grant

Certain Hope

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Re: No Contact
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2007, 12:29:22 PM »
Thank you for sharing your story of losing and finding your family starfish.  I'm so happy for you that you are surrounded by love and abundance now.   :D

On a different board I read, one of the posters writes something that I think is totally wise and wish I knew it years ago.  She says, do not JADE.

It stands for:

Do not Justify your actions
Do not Argue about your boundaries
Do not Defend yourself about your actions
Do not Explain what you are doing etc.

Because that is how you get sucked in.

ooo Thank you for this, Iphi - sounds right to me!

Just tell it like it is.

Starfish

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Re: No Contact
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2007, 08:02:54 PM »
Dearest Friends,
Thank you so much for taking time to answer my question so thoughtfully.
Of course, If I had given it real thought it makes perfect sense not to try to explain the whys to my Nmom.....because in her eyes I would be making things up and hurtful.
I think NC is the best way, and I will work on reconcilling myself sense of guilt over that.
In the meantime, I like the approach that Hope's husband has taken...it seems to be hat I am doing these days anyway.

and Besee...neither of them...I don't want to play favorites! But I did get them their own lei to wear!
"To thine own self be true" Shakespeare (Polonius tells Laertes)

Iphi

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Re: No Contact
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2007, 09:49:13 AM »
Labs in leis - I love it!  Best wishes for your wedding day.   :)

besee your experience of falling into a depression an hour into a visit to the parents is so powerfully indicative of the serious impact dysfunction has on a person's well being.

I would not want someone to JADE me either and for many years tried to always explain things to my dad.  And those were occasions of extremely memorable maulings and shreddings of me that took weeks or months for me to recover.  I guess it's about what seems appropriate to the situation.

I think CH's husband is very wise and is a lesson to me!  Go Mr. CH! 
Character, which has nothing to do with intellect or skill, can evolve only by increasing our capacity to love, and to become lovable. - Joan Grant

Certain Hope

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Re: No Contact
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2007, 10:24:09 AM »
Starfish and Iphi,

(Iphi - lol @ Mr. CH... he will chuckle at that!
and Starfish, I do hope you'll post a photo or 2 of those decked-out pups! :))

I hope you don't mind.. Feeling like I need to take a closer look at this JADE business...  because this is all still so new to me - the whole thing, really - recognizing feelings of being overwhelmed and manipulated, putting those feelings into appropriate action, applying and enforcing suitable bounaries... whew. It's a tall order.
These are my impressions -
J -  Do not Justify:  To me, this means do not get defensive. Don't dredge up loads of past stuff and use it as evidence for my need to act. In fact, I see justifying as going hand in hand with reacting, instead of more appropriately responding to the situation at hand.

A - Do not Argue:  I either have boundaries in place or not. If my boundaries depend on somebody else's view of them, then they're not my boundaries, are they? Why argue about something that is a part of myself? We have skin for good reason and we have internal boundaries for good reason. To me, arguing about this would be like giving somebody else the potential to skin me alive :S

D - Do not Defend: Again, like the bits on justifying and arguing... I can see the ideal as a willingness to hear criticism and ponder it, but that's a private matter, not open to the critic. Perhaps a compromise can be reached, but I doubt whether that possibility would ever appear if there's all this defending going on. A quiet taking-in of objections and a stepping-away to consider would seem alot more instructive.

E - Do not Explain: After some thought, this one - I think I'll have to drop and just stick with JAD for now. I seem to connect via explaining... and I'm not sure it'd be wise to abandon that. My mother never explains anything and I hate it... too much of the "it's my way or the highway" attitude. So yeah, I think some explanation is good...to a point... provided it does not go into the realm of justifying, arguing, or defending.

Now, how to give just enough explanation... hmm... more pondering. Thanks, ladies, for the chance to explain further :)

Hope

Starfish

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Re: No Contact
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2007, 11:33:34 AM »
Good Morning,

I will be sure to post a photo of the boys.  I assume we do it in the [img] format here?

Hope, your deconstruction of JAD(E) was well thought out. 

I can't stay on long...I have a ton of yard work to do this morning.  This, my friends, is the downside to having a wedding at home!

Love,
Starfish
"To thine own self be true" Shakespeare (Polonius tells Laertes)