Author Topic: Nudging into Cluster Mucks & Muddles ~ Finding Peace  (Read 2247 times)

Certain Hope

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Nudging into Cluster Mucks & Muddles ~ Finding Peace
« on: September 24, 2007, 04:38:49 PM »
Dear Peace,

I hope this is okay with you... to move your last post from the "Hate?" thread  this morning over here. This seemed like the best way to continue discussion... or we can just leave it if you'd prefer... I dunno.

Yep I hear ya Izzy. 

Tho – have to say, a record player doesn’t have feelings – you nudge it, the only one affected is the nudger as they get a rest from hearing the same thing over and over and over.

This is how I see it:

When the record player is a person – that gentle nudge may feel like a kick in the gut because they aren’t ready to hear that they are stuck in the same groove, the nudger may be misinterpreting that the nudgee is stuck in a groove, when in fact they aren’t, and the nudgee may get offended and say some nasty things.

Then the nudger gets offended cause their getting kicked back, and say some nasty things and the whole purpose of the well-intentioned gentle nudge is lost – and all you get is a major cluster muck with all nudges ending up angry. 

And Carolyn, I definitely agree – this whole cluster muck could be avoided if the nudger first checks out how the nudgee feels about being nudged before nudging. 

Sometimes, someone inadvertently nudges and in this case, it helps if the nudgee asks the nudger if they intended to nudge, and what was the intent of the nudge.  (Similar to your exchange with Lighter when you thought she was being sarcastic).  When that happens the potential cluster muck can be stopped in its tracks (as it was with you and Lighter - a good example of communication IMO).  When the nudgee doesn’t ask, then we may get a repeat of paragraphs 1 through 3.

If after all of this, there is still a hiccup in the record, the only feasible action I can see is the nudgee needs to stop listening to the nudger until they are ready to hear and the nudger needs to listen to a different record player so they aren’t driven crazy by the repeating sound - kwim?  Kinda like letting go of the outcome.

One other piece to consider for the nudgee, is whether the nudger has an agenda different than helping.  It may be that the nudger was truly trying to help; however, it could also be that the nudger was nudging to meet their own agenda.  The reverse is also true, if the reaction to a gentle, well-intentioned nudge is seemingly over the top, it may be that nudgee was triggered; however, it could also be that the nudgee is blowing things out of proportion to meet their own agenda. (Learned this one from the FOO – had some master Nnudgers and Nnudgees.)  Only time can tell when this happens.

Whew – got carried away there. (This is what happens to a post migraine brain) :smile: 

Love to you both.  Speaking for myself, I appreciate a gentle, well-intentioned nudge most of the time.  May not like it, may agree or not with it, but I will always learn something from it.

Peace

PS:  I am old enough to know what a record is. Funny thing, I actually had to explain to my D what a record is :shock: – that was a real unpleasant, eye-opening I am old moment :) Kinda felt like I was in a Forrest Gump movie :shock:

PSS:  Carolyn - thinking about you.  How did the dentist go?

First off, thank you so much, Peace, for remembering that dental appt. and thinking of me today! That's so sweet... nobody here remembered, even though I've confessed how difficult it is for me. (((((((Finding Peace)))))))) Engaged in a smattering of self-pity over that  :(
But this visit went better than usual, with the bp meds doin their thing... I felt alot calmer. They took many x-rays and got me all shinied up, see?  :D lol... and I didn't bite anybody  :shock:   Bad news is to be expected, I guess... that old broken molar is abcessed (probably has contributed to my feelin  :P lately) and they charge an exorbitant amount for root canal and crown, so I'll just take the antibiotic for 10 days and then have the baddie extracted next Thurs. It'll be okay... just keep tellin myself that I can make a fresh start in this self-care, but still have some leftover messes to clean up; no big deal. Other teeth are pretty good.. just a couple ancient fillings with fissures needing repair, but all in all, I've taken pretty good care of them, I guess (or just good genes). I kept feelin my hands clenched together and repeatedly having to relax, but at least I didn't get the shakes... just exhausted when I got home and feeling full of meds at this point... and yeah, a bit more self-pity.

And on that note, I think I'll go lie back down, cuz I seem to have lost it here...  :? 
Mostly wanted to say I'm so glad your migraine departed and how very much I appreciated this post of yours.
What you wrote explained alot to me about how I sometimes feel, because so often I only know that something is bothering me, but not really sure exactly what or why.
The cluster muck gives me a visual of two kids elbowing each other in the ribs, over and over... or pushing, first one and then the other... until finally, one (or both) wind up on the floor.
I really do believe that the solution is twofold
1) Simply asking the other person whether they'd like to hear our opinion.
and
2) Acknowledging to ourselves (and the other!) that our opinion is just that - and not necessarily fact, since we aren't aware of the entire story and do not walk in that person's pink furry bunny slippers.

nap time.

Love you, Peace

Carolyn

 

isittoolate

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Re: Nudging into Cluster Mucks & Muddles ~ Finding Peace
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2007, 04:51:03 PM »
My little example of nudging from one groove to the next, as in a phonograph:

What I  see is that we, the stuck ones, are chatting with someone who returns the chat and might just say some little thing that we totally relate to and it nudges us forward by a groove.

Perhaps something a therapist says is a small nudge forward to the next groove.

Maybe the minister preaches something that is a little nudge--we can find these little nudges everywhere if we pay attention.

Each little nudge is worth something, so that I all I have to say, because that's the way I think of nudging

I am not into pushing!

Love
Izzy

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Gaining Strength

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Re: Nudging into Cluster Mucks & Muddles ~ Finding Peace
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2007, 07:00:46 PM »
Wow Certain Hope.  I am so glad that you made it through the dental work today.  I am so glad that Finding Peace remembered to ask about it.  Of course it makes a difference that someone listens and pays attention.  I am sorry you are going through that mess.  There is nothing I like less that dental work and under such circumstances  - well I'm sorry.  your friend - Gaining Strength

teartracks

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Re: Nudging into Cluster Mucks & Muddles ~ Finding Peace
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2007, 07:20:24 PM »



Hi CH,

Know the feeling...Remember that dangling bridge I had three - four months ago?  Well it's still there, dangling.  October 10 I believe is D day.  Sorry you're feeling abandoned and all jangled on so many fronts.
Sending hugs.

tt

finding peace

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Re: Nudging into Cluster Mucks & Muddles ~ Finding Peace
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2007, 07:25:06 PM »
Hey Izzy,

I understand completely.

I got off on a nudge tangent - mostly about recent events on the board with so many angry posts.  I do think that people who come to a place like this may be more sensitive to nudging.  Myself included - I have worked hard in the past year or so not to be triggered by the smallest things, and when I feel uneasy about something I hear/read, I tell myself to wait it out, give it a chance to see if it was what I really thought.  Funny thing - 9 times out of 10 I was jumping to conclusions that weren't even there.  I think it is part of the aftermath of having N parents or being in a N relationship.

I was really upset by all the negative back and forth I saw.  In my house, it was a constant nudge-fest, and it was deliberate.  Actually, I shouldn't even say nudge, I should say push fest.  So when I see less than gentle nudging here - it bugs me (I get triggered).

I am not perfect - I did it too.  I was triggered, and took a swipe at the board.  Ironic thing was it wasn't because of what people posted - it was a lack of posting :::rolling eyes at myself::::  And ultimately, it wasn't about the board at all, but about me and my triggers.  So I followed up with an apology.  Wish I could take it back, I feel badly about it.  I suppose I could delete it - but then it doesn't really feel honest.  [on edit:  meant to say wish I could take the angry post back, didn't mean the apology!!]

Someone said to me recently that people are going to butt heads.  I think this will happen - and, IMO, it is how one deals with it that matters the most.

My 00.02

Much love to you,
Peace

PS - Lighter - llloooovveee the outfit (faux fur - ok).  Now about the truth rope tail, I dunno, do you think it is too 70's?  I was going to say I can go with the tail look, but can't have the headband with horns to go with it - just won't do.  But, got to thinking about it, and thought hey why not - let's do the tail, the horned headband, and a gold pitchfork instead of a sword -  :twisted:
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 08:13:20 PM by finding peace »
- Life is a journey not a destination

Hopalong

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Re: Nudging into Cluster Mucks & Muddles ~ Finding Peace
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2007, 07:43:40 PM »
Hi Peace,
I don't know if you know how much fun it also was to read this, but I fell over laughing because of the SOUND!

Quote
Sometimes, someone inadvertently nudges and in this case, it helps if the nudgee asks the nudger if they intended to nudge, and what was the intent of the nudge.  (Similar to your exchange with Lighter when you thought she was being sarcastic).  When that happens the potential cluster muck


I have no sense, but good alliteration and rhythm get me every time. Thanks for the chortle.

CarolynH,
I'm so sorry I forgot to send comfort to you for the dental torture. (((((Hope)))))

Hypnosis helps a lot with that kind of experience too. Let me know if you need more info.

hugs, gently,
Hops (I'm really glad you're done neglecting your own well-being. GOOD for you!)
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Certain Hope

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Re: Nudging into Cluster Mucks & Muddles ~ Finding Peace
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2007, 08:28:18 PM »
whoops...  :oops:  Sorry, friends... I didn't mean that y'all should have remembered!! 
I meant that nobody here at home seemed to remember... and then just after I logged off for a nap,  my husband called from work to check in on me... so double oops  :oops:

Looks like I've already taken the self-pity a leap too far... and I apologize for givin the wrong impression all the way around.
Guess I really went into baby-mode today. Rest helped and I think antibiotics are already started kicking that infection in the fanny (doubled up on first dose), so... it's all smooth sailing from here... till next Thurs, when I will be weepin in my iced tea again, prolly... lol.

((((((((((Tt, GS, Hops, and Peace - I saw you over on da other thread))))))))))))) Thank you so much. I know you all have your own heaping platters with which to deal and I really never expected anybody to recall my piddly stuff, honest. This is me just practicing not holdin in all the piddles... and thank you all for bein there.
And Dear Tt... your bridge is dangling on my calendar for 10-10, so's I can hug up on you some more at that time.

With love,
Carolyn


Hopalong

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Re: Nudging into Cluster Mucks & Muddles ~ Finding Peace
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2007, 09:52:26 PM »
TT, forgive my senility (I've got real memory issues at times)...
would you remind me what you mean by bridge and what your upcoming bridge is?

I want to send coherent vibes.

tx, xo,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

teartracks

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Re: Nudging into Cluster Mucks & Muddles ~ Finding Peace
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2007, 11:11:09 PM »



Hops,

Hold off on the coherent vibes.  The least bit of vibration might make this danging bridge colapse!   :lol:  Thanks for your concern. 

CH,

More than anything I was feeling your anxiety about the dental thing along with all the other that is going on to cause you angst.  I despise getting into the dentist's chair, but you do what you gotta do, right? 

tt




teartracks

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Re: Nudging into Cluster Mucks & Muddles ~ Finding Peace
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2007, 01:23:31 AM »



Dear Hops,

TT, forgive my senility (I've got real memory issues at times)...
would you remind me what you mean by bridge and what your upcoming bridge is?

I want to send coherent vibes.

tx, xo,
Hops



Post #58 this thread, way back in I believe in June
http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=4850.45

tt



Hopalong

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Re: Nudging into Cluster Mucks & Muddles ~ Finding Peace
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2007, 07:44:02 AM »
Yow. TT, I don't think I forgot it, think I repressed it.
(((((((TT))))))).
I've been across that bridge too.

love
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Nudging into Cluster Mucks & Muddles ~ Finding Peace
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2007, 10:03:13 AM »
whoops...  :oops:  Sorry, friends... I didn't mean that y'all should have remembered!! 


I've been more worried about your BP and cig withdrawls than the dental.... sorry Hope: )

Falling behind on posts again too: /