Newbie Seeking Advice About Stepdaughter's Mother

[RedOrDead]

My 10 year old stepdaughter has a mother who exhibits some narcissistic characteristics.  I believe she may actually have Histrionic Personality Disorder, but like a narcissist, everything is always about her and she demonstrates little capacity for empathy.  Unfortunately, my husband is only allowed to see his daughter one afternoon a week and every other weekend.  He has tried to get more parenting time, but has not been successful.  

I am never sure how to discuss this narcissism with my stepdaughter.  On one hand, I do not want to speak badly of her mother, but I also don’t want my stepdaughter to believe that her mother’s behavior is normal or OK.  I hope we are doing a good job of relating to my stepdaughter on her level and giving her a sense of her importance and value, but it’s really hard to accomplish that with such limited time.  I sometimes feel like her mother is so damaging that nothing we do will ever be enough.  I was wondering if anyone had any advice for me regarding the situation.  I would certainly appreciate any tips or encouragement.

[Tokyojim]

It sound as though you are emphasizing what is important for her - Relating to her and making her feel important.  If you say things against her mother, that could confuse a 10 year old.  If you persist in focusing on the child, she will see who is the caring person in the long run.

In the meantime, is there any possibility of getting custody?  If the child's parent has a personality disorder, this may be possible.  If you have any thought of going that route, it is important to document things over a long period.  Write things down, and date them carefully.  If you amass enough information, you will probably win.

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the board RorD!

Saw your message and wanted to say hello.

Your note is a bit of a head-scratcher for me.  I found myself wondering how long you had been married and how long you have know your stepdaughter.  That is, what kind of relationship and "standing" do you have with her?  

It's a little tricky since you indicate that she is still living with her mother.  She's at a pretty impressionable time of her life and she needs to feel OK where she is.  My thought is to simply treat her as well and as fairly as you can when you are with her.  Model good parenting skills as much as you can.  Model good relationship skills with her dad, when you are all together, esp. how to respectfully work out a difference of opinion.  Really listen to each other.  Establish trust without pressuring her to be "on your side".  And you can encourage her to trust her own feelings about how things are going anywhere (in school, at home) to build her confidence and independence of thought.  If she complains about her mom, resist the temptation to explain it all to her. Just ask her some questions about how SHE feels about what is going on, what her choices are, etc.

My guess is that your concern is arising out of a growing attachment for your step-daughter and a wish to be together more.  But I would be careful about undermining her mother even if what you say is true.  I know you want to protect her.  If you make your home an emotionally safe place, she will come to you when she is ready and she feels the need for some breathing room (those teen years are just around the corner).  

Hope these suggestions are helpful.  Best, Seeker

[Anonymous]

RedorDead,

I can relate, my niece's mother (my sister) is very screwed up.  I never tell her that her mother is a narcissist or anything like that. It wouldn't help her at this point in time. So....I wouldn't say anything to this girl about her mother's narcissism. She's too young to understand, she lives with her mom, she identifies with her mom and knows she is "part of" her mom. What you can do (and probably are doing), is be a positive role model. If SHE mentions her mother, you can be empathic for her difficulties without giving the mother the label "narcissist" or even explaining narcissism.  That's my feedback.

bunny

[RedOrDead]

I found myself wondering how long you had been married and how long you have know your stepdaughter.  That is, what kind of relationship and "standing" do you have with her?  

I've known my stepdaughter since she was 4.  My husband and I moved in together the following year and we got married in January 2002.  I have a good relationship with her.  

If she complains about her mom, resist the temptation to explain it all to her. Just ask her some questions about how SHE feels about what is going on, what her choices are, etc.

My SD is becoming increasingly disrespectful and critical of her mother.  I talk to her about how she feels and about how she wants to handle things, but she's often puzzled by her mother's behavior.  At times she directly asks me why her mom did this or that.  I ask her what she thinks and she say that her mom is crazy or mean or something like that.  Most of the time I'll acknowledge what she says (i.e. It must have hurt your feelings when your mom said that...) and leave it at that, but sometimes I'll also offer an alternative viewpoint (i.e. I'm not sure your mom realized that she hurt your feelings...I don't think she intended to be mean, but I know it still hurts when she says that.).  

I think we're getting to the point where my SD needs more "tools".  Her mother constantly complains about her behavior (although we have few problems at our house).  Apparently they are also having a lot of verbal altercations.  I think she may be coming to me for more "direction" because when I have given her suggestions about things like how she should respond to her friends or her teachers, she seems to listen attentively and she will report back on how the conversation went.  I have been hesitant to be this directive when discussing her mother because I'm afraid of crossing the line.  I don't think SD would take it that way, but in the past she has repeated completely innocent things I've said and her mom somehow interprets this as "badmouthing" and throws an absolute fit.  Mind you, these aren't bad things...these are things like "your mom does things one way at her house and we do something different in ours".   Anyway, this is the part that I'm wrestling with...where is the line?

[RedOrDead]

In the meantime, is there any possibility of getting custody?  If the child's parent has a personality disorder, this may be possible.  If you have any thought of going that route, it is important to document things over a long period.  Write things down, and date them carefully.  If you amass enough information, you will probably win.

We keep documentation of everything in case we need it later, but our lawyers haven't given us much hope given the judge we have.  He tends to only change custody in cases of direct physical abuse or neglect.  I'm not even sure the PD is the worst of it.  The mother seems to drink quite a bit and in the past five years she has had 4 different live-in boyfriends.  They move in after only a few weeks of dating and the relationships tend to end with a restraining order.  We expect that in a couple of years the relationship between my stepdaughter and her mother will be so toxic that one of them will insist that SD lives with us.

[Anonymous]

Red,

This is indeed a dilemma. Things you say to your SD, no matter how innocuous, will no doubt be reported to her mom. This occurs because she needs to "show loyalty" to her mother after visiting her dad. My advice is to do an internet search on "PARENTAL ALIENATION SYNDROME" and you will get eye-opening info on what you're facing and what to do.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Dear RorD,

It sounds like you have a lot going in your favor as far as a positive relationship with your SD, even if custody seems unlikely.  

Some more thoughts: It's a given that SD's mom will interrogate and be suspicious of you even the PD.  You are wise to be looking ahead.  If a "divorce" between SD and her mom is imminent in the next few years, you may need to take steps now to protect yourself from the fallout that will also be predictable.  Someone mentioned documenting everything.  A very good idea.  Also, on bpdcentral.com they are touting a new book about BPD and divorce.  You might be able to apply some of the advice to this situation.  You know a natural disaster is coming, so be prepared!  Also, you might want to read Stop Walking on Eggshells to help yourself understand and cope with this situation.  It can also provide some phrases to use (some tools) for you and SD to use with her mom.  I just wouldn't tell SD the source of these ideas!  

Another thought: when I was a young girl, I couldn't understand why some kids would take an instant dislike to me or others.  Like a reaction.  I always thought it was me.  Now I know it wasn't me.  I explain to my kids that we're not going to like everyone and not everyone is going to like us.  I just don't understand it, but that is the way it is.  Doesn't mean we're not "nice" or "worthy" or whatever.  For whatever reason, it just doesn't work.  It helps them (and me) take things less personally.

As for a parent tearing down a child, perhaps you can point out generally that sometimes when people are angry and say mean things, they are really revealing something that they don't like about themselves.  I don't know how I can bring that down to a ten year old level, but I'd try. I would not bring it up when she's talking about her mom specifically, but I'll bet she's bright enough to make the connection herself when she needs to.  

Art is also another great outlet for expressing frustration and for taking one's mind elsewhere for escape.  It sounds like you are very strong, capable individuals and this is simply the challenge life is presenting you, not to be avoided but met face on.  The fact that you are there listening to your SD means someone does care, SD matters.  She is way ahead in having a healthy perspective than those kids whose viewpoints are not acknowledged.  Kudos to you!  

Hope this brainstorming is useful.  Peace, Seeker

[Anonymous]

Ooops!  

I said: It's a given that SD's mom will interrogate and be suspicious of you even the PD.

I meant to say: It's a given that SD's mom will interrogate, etc. esp. because of the PD.  
Sorry about that.  Seeker

[Anonymous]

Also, on bpdcentral.com they are touting a new book about BPD and divorce.  You might be able to apply some of the advice to this situation.  You know a natural disaster is coming, so be prepared!  Also, you might want to read Stop Walking on Eggshells to help yourself understand and cope with this situation.  It can also provide some phrases to use (some tools) for you and SD to use with her mom.  

Thank you so much for your response!  I've spent the last several years reading all kinds of books and websites about divorce and parental alienation, but there is almost nothing that addresses the special problems you have when one of the parents appears to have some form of mental illness.  It's not like you can end the parenting relationship if it becomes too toxic.  Plus, these people can use the court system to impose serious emotional and financial burdens.  I think I'm going to have to start looking at material that focuses on dealing with people who have personality disorders.  Your suggestions helped point me in the right direction.

[Jaded911]

Hi red,

First of all let me begin by stating that I am not a child expert, however I do have children of my own.  I can say this for certain, any child that is involved in either emotional or physical abuse at home, they are scared, feel alone, and they are so very confused.  They want to be loved by these abusers more then anything else in the world.  They seek acceptance more so than a child in a healthy emotional environment.  I strongly feel that if you even remotely approach this child with this information, it will turn around and bite you and your husband right square in the ars.  I personally would spend any amount of money to take this little girl to a professional.  Let them be the judge and messenger for this situation.  You could seek out someone who knows what to look for and I might also add that this professional wouldn't have all of the emotions you and your husband have because of the X situation.  They would know the right questions to ask to probe into this.

I am afraid that if you delivered this information to this little girl, you might not handle it in a way that would be to her benefit.  Nothing against you and your husband when I say that.  I just know that when I began to learn what NPD was, I was so overwhelmed that I couldnt think straight.  I cant imagine being a 10 yr old and having to comprehend all of this chit that NPD brings into your life.  Another thought is that you have to think like a 10 yr old child here.  What would you think if you were in her shoes.  I would think, man I love my mom, why are they trying to make me hate her?

All you have to do is to look into that childs eyes to see how confusing all of this is to her.  When you look into her eyes and you see nothing but a blank stare looking back at ya, you know for sure that a N has clouded her hopes and dreams with their poison.  

I just dont think I would cut my own nose off here to spite my face.  I would let a professional deal with this very complicated information.  I couldnt grasp it all as an adult, to a child, wowzie, I cant imagine.

Best wishes!!