name-calling and proscribing child's feelings

[write]

h will say things like 'he shouldn't behave like that' or 'it's not appropriate' ( the behavipur is usually crying or frustration and whilst it's annoying it is pretty typical ) and we've had two rows recently about name-calling 'stupid'.

I come from a working class culture where name-calling and such other things* were common, so does h, but I thought we'd moved away from all that.

*shut up or I'll give you something to cry for/ now then Lady-Jane/ lazy b*gg*r/ cloth-ears/ fatso & guts/ don't turn on the waterworks/ here we go again/ you know what he's like.../ head in the clouds/ no common sense/ what's the matter with you now etc

are all phrases common to our background but the basic message is dismissiveness and loss of the child's individuality.

We keep going round in circles because whilst h intelectualises and agrees with me emotionally he's stuck in that world of flat caps and sarcasm!

I'm going to print that out and show it to him, maybe he'll recognise.

It's similar to what Patricia Evans called moving between Realities one and two.

[Portia]

We keep going round in circles because whilst h intelectualises and agrees with me emotionally he's stuck in that world of flat caps and sarcasm!

You mean H says one thing to you but does what he likes with son? It's not good. Why does H do it? It's so childish, like an excuse for not thinking, as though thinking is sissy and stupid in itself. Hah - pot-bank, know your place mentality. It's rubbish. Show him that! P

[Learning]

Hi Write,

I'm going to print that out and show it to him, maybe he'll recognise.

I have alot of experience with dealing with people who say one thing and then do another.  I must say I have never had any success with getting them to reconcile the two.  One thing that I thought I could have tried was couple therapy and I am wondering if you are doing that?  The other thing I thought of in your situation is, what if you could catch him on a recorder saying those things to your son.  That may be a futile exercise but just a thought.

Best Wishes to you!

[write]

I have alot of experience with dealing with people who say one thing and then do another. I must say I have never had any success with getting them to reconcile the two.

The only way to reconcile them is to get the person to examine their underlying beliefs and to challenge them.

H and I are separated, so I've no interest in couple counselling. He's in therapy himself so maybe over time it'll get easier.

I spoke with him earlier and he's apologetic, but strong emotions bring out the most narcissistic response in him so no doubt it'll be a very long-term thing.

*sigh*

At least we're away from the old Potbank mentality Portia- last thing I need is to have him reinforced by that!

[Anonymous]

write,

Possibly your husband reverts to the old working class behavior when he's under stress -- when he has difficulty managing his feelings invoked by child's distress -- and when he feels inadequate to give a child more empathy than anyone gave him as a child.

There's a great book called "Compassionate Child-Rearing" by Robert Firestone that might interest you.

bunny

[Learning]

Hi Write,

I'm so sorry if I conveyed the wrong message.  I did not mean to suggest couple therapy to discuss your marriage.  I meant it along the lines of jointly discussing with a therapist how you want to raise your child(ren).  I was just reflecting and actually you didn't ask and I shouldn't have said anything.  I'm sorry.

I hope it will get easier for you.    

Take Care.

[write]

that's ok Learning, I'm open to most things!

I'll check out the book Bunny.

[Nic]

Hi Write,
I suppose you've done it all..meaning, get angry when he says things like that to then know that deep down he knows he shouldn't but he can't help himself..I know something about that too.  
I read some very interesting stuff on anger, which Portia had suggested in her "ramble thread"..and i've tried it out in my own couple.  I found the suggestion of absolutely not getting angry, that is, going down that spiral, challenging to say the least but it does work.  Ns or anybody with any kind of grief..( including myself!) harbour alot of anger..the perspective of the article I read really helped in that I recognize ANGER as an emotion I should observe and convert into something more edifying. I've admitted to myself that anger is a diseased emotion I should manage another way from now on!
In any case it's an experiment i'm conducting on/with myself in dealing with my partner's and my inability to channel negative feelings without sabotaging ourselves individually or collectively.
For myself, i've noticed that it is working...coming from having been brought up by two Ns and having been surrounded by mayhem eversince I can remember, I always seem to expect an epiphany around every corner.  This technique of consciously stopping the poisonous anger is a very new approach..I was ( I guess..! ) somewhat hooked on the catharsis of the psychology that favours loosing it ...and since i've spent so much time protecting myself and surviving the N hell, i'm not used to the method so I have to be very patient with moi.
It is very frustrating to know however,that on the unconscious level we all know we shouldn't be doing or saying certain things..for myself it is sometimes disheartening to notice that after the dust has settled I still didn't make use of my voice when I could have because the defense mechanisms temporarily overpower everything i've learned and could use!  
Good luck with this...if you let some of his comments pass without getting angry or reacting to it could you let me know?  We could compare notes on that!

All the best,
Nic

[write]

thanks Nic.

we had a beautiful day today, all of us, just fooling around with the football after a picnic in the park.

A cold hand is clutching my heart...I sense something is badly wrong with h health-wise. I realise how much we all have grown accustomed to his symptoms, to the point of accepting them as normal.

But I feel positive after getting out my anger and grief: I know so many things are not the tragedies the first appear, or are 'blessings in disguise'.

I will try to trust us, we can get through all this.