getting out of his grip

[Anonymous]

My husband moved out of our home Feb 1.  I believe the only reaosn he did so was because he committed to in front of our therapist in a huge blow-out statement;'"  I need to get away and give our kids a safe-haven, away from her craziness"  I think doing it in front of a male counselor--he wanted to look good and follow through.  Several months prior I begged him to leave to give us a break and he wouldn't; "I pay for this house this is my house'  Several months prior and immediately following my Sister's death, he wouldn't talk to me; he slept on the couch for months.  I would come down crying ,asking him to please talk and work things out; he would be playing guitar with headphones on and not even take them off and then make a weird face and sing defiantly in my face.  all of this happened in the thick of grieving my 1 and only Sister, who I was extremely closed to.  I felt like I was living in a hell.  I have 2 small boys.  He would give me the silent treatment for weeks and every night he walked throught he door I would hope that this would be the night he would talk.  I look back and feel like I was just a dog waiting for her master to throw her a bone.  He would walk right by me and I would begin to cry, thinking, oh no, I cannot deal with this another night.  He would go to my boys and laugh and throw them in the air and play with them right in front of my crying face.  And then he would tell me I was crazy and ruining everyone's life.  After all of this, I realized I needed big time help and that I was not going to live this way anymore .  This was when I asked him to leave and he would not.  I moved to a friend's loft for 3 months. He never called me.  He never asked me to come home.  He never said he was sorry for anything.  Ii started to gain clarity on how I had been living.

He did agree to counseling, but completely twisted everything around. I believe he had the counselor fooled for a good amount of time, but he then even slipped up a bit  (he's very smart) and said things like; "I only call her a bitch when she deserves it" and "yeah I sexually molested her, I wanted to give her a taste of what it felt like to be cornered and DEMANDED that you be talked to"  "I'm not sorry".  If she wants to talk to me, she needs to set up an appt. " That's what people do"  The light bulbs started going on for me.  The counselor did little intervention.  That always perplexed me.  It just does not seem that couples counseling is set-up for abuse in a relationship.  Here I am, trying to take a stand for the first time in my life and find my voice, and the counselor doen't even intervene with comments like this.

The counselor did seem to know.  He basically recommended separation and I think was trying to minimize interaction in general.  I would appreciate anyone's thoughts here.

Basically I'm struggling.  We are not divorced.  I have decided not to do counseling until he is willing to take a look at himself.    We tried to set up a parenting plan, along with financial agreements, which he broke in a big way.  So basically I said, what's the point? I'm trying to set boudaries.  The problem is, he still gets to me.  Every encounter  (which I have to have some because we share kids) is horrible.  He is indifferent and mean.  He laughs at me when I cry.  He undermines me in front of the kids.  The kids always say they miss their Daddy when theya re with me, which just breaks my heart.

I know I'm on the right path.  But it is a hard walk.  There is this part of me that jsut keeps saying; "why can't he see this"  If I just could make him see this"  The more I read about this disorder the more I realize I need to let go.  I 'm just wondering if there is anyway of just beating them at their own game.  Do they have any idea  of or accountability for their reckless inhumane behavior, or do we just let them off the hook because it's their pathology?  I do want to hold him accountable.  I married this man and dedicated my life to him and had 2 boys with him.  And I know I need to look at me and why I made this choice--red flags abound from the beginning, starting when he literally walked away and wouldn't even come for me to have an abortion --my Dad went.  Can you believe it?  I know I need to be gentle on myself, but what the hell was I thinking!!!

[Anonymous]

I'm very supportive of your separating from this man because he is a sadist.  Nothing you can do will change him, because he gets satisfaction from cruelty. He doesn't want to change himself.

I would start reading about psychopathic personalities, because I think that's what we're looking at. Psychopaths aren't all serial killers. Many of them live fairly normal existences. But they are nightmares to live with, as they get gratification from sadism.

A critical issue is that when you want to divorce him, he will try to destroy you financially. So you need resources such as the best lawyer you can possibly get; one who has experience with psychopathic ex-spouses. You can't beat him at his own game because the game is psychopathy. It's far too dangerous. But you can shop for an attorney who is very savvy. The attorney will play the game on your behalf.


bunny

[Anonymous]

Dear Guest,

Do not waste your time focusing on getting even or holding him "accountable".  Ask yourself what you want.  I assume it is to get out with the least amount of damage possible.  Focus on moving on and focus on that only.  Get your eyes off him and onto your life.

Like Bunny says, get a savvy attorney who gets paid to do the ugly stuff.  Read up everything you can and go in with your eyes open to the truth about this person.  Do not count on "fairness" "honor" or loyalty.  Protect yourself.  Take care, Seeker

[cplummer]

Bunny,
I must say your comment about psychopathic personality really has shocked me. I have been looking at axis II and just did not consider this one.  I guess because most of the time this personality type seems to involve criminalistic behavior.  Thank you for your direct truth.   I will re-look at the whole type.  The whole process of leaving this man and living with him in my life (because of my kids) scares me to death.  My boys are only 3 and 5 years old--he seems to adore them.  Do you think I have any concerns as they get older,a s to how he will treat them.  I think he may have N traits also, as he seems to want unquestionable glorification--which he gets from them right now.  I know they will not always adore him without confrontation--as they get their own power.  I am totally dependent on him right now financially.  He has not yet pulled the plug.  I think he may actually be a bit afraid to, as I have always paid all of the bills and taken care of all of that.  He's far too unorganized.  I also think he's smoking a lot of pot, which I believe may cause memory impairment.  From a legal standpoint, is there anyway I can prove any of all of this or get the court to get him to take a personlity test or something?

[el123]

cplummer,  Sorry to hear that you are going through this.  I know how hard it must be to deal with when there are children involved.  I feel the pain in your post.  I have to echo the other responses when I say that your H definately sounds sadistic and getting out seems the best for all involved.  Also, yes a good lawyer is key.  

Another thing that I thought of after reading your post is that you have been in such a dark place with this man.  Crying with no consolation from him, his sadistic behavior towards you, etc.  that you REALLY should focus on your happiness right now.  Your own healing from the stuff he has done to you.  Maybe do something just for you. Every single day try to find some sliver of hope, happiness in yourself and the future.  Maybe get a babysitter and go shopping by yourself or with a friend, Call a friend, get a massage, go for  long walks on the beach or in a beautiful cook some new types of foods that you have always wanted to learn, get some kites and play with the kids at a park, get some paints and paint with your boys,  play ball together, get involved in their happiness as you all do some fun things together.  You've been treated so badly that I just feel that you need to do all that you can to feel good.  YOU DESERVE IT!  Try to take the focus off of him for some time each day.

Take care, -E

[Anonymous]

E,
I so appreciate yor advice of "positive affirmations" and positive experiences every day.  You know, the beautfiul ting that is coming out of all of this is that as soon as he left, I felt this tremendous sadness  (the loss of a fmaily dream) but also tremendous grief.  I feel myself becoming more and more stable and grounded for my boys.  For many years, i would go through the "cycle of abuse" and feel emotionally a wreck when he was in the abusive stage.  Sometimes all I could do at these times with my boys was basic sustanance needs--feed them, keep them clean, put them to bed--I was always crying.  I feel as if I am a true Mother for the 1st time in my life.  I feel now that I have the patience, prescence and energy to be ateacher and playmate to me kids.  That's why your comments and concern about them mean so much to me.  We do enjoy the very simple things in life.  I've already taken them ccamping twice this Spring by myself--something I had never previously done without my H.  This is all very empowering for me.  So it's all bittersweet.  I know I'm embarking on a new and better life for them adn for me; but I have so much pain and anger that I also think I need to process before I can move forward.  It's like, I'm looking back on the 8 years and realizing and admitting for the first time how I've been treated.  Thanks for your light to guide me through this day.  Have  a beautiful day yourself.  (CSHF)  (Countess Shedding Her Fears!)

[Anonymous]

The whole process of leaving this man and living with him in my life (because of my kids) scares me to death.

Yes, it is scary. But do-able. See websites below for information.

My boys are only 3 and 5 years old--he seems to adore them.  Do you think I have any concerns as they get older,a s to how he will treat them.

There are always concerns with a sadistic person. But you can't predict anything yet, and you can cross that bridge later.

I think he may have N traits also, as he seems to want unquestionable glorification--which he gets from them right now.  I know they will not always adore him without confrontation--as they get their own power.

Psychopathy is a form of narcissism.

I am totally dependent on him right now financially.  He has not yet pulled the plug.  I think he may actually be a bit afraid to, as I have always paid all of the bills and taken care of all of that.  He's far too unorganized.  I also think he's smoking a lot of pot, which I believe may cause memory impairment.  From a legal standpoint, is there anyway I can prove any of all of this or get the court to get him to take a personlity test or something?

If your state has community property, you own half of everything. Anyway, you need an attorney to protect your assets. Unfortunately, you can't assume your H will remain dependent on you, if he thinks you'll leave him. He may find another woman to do the job. I don't think the marijuana smoking will have any effect on custody etc., but you need an attorney to deal with this issue. Also he/she will deal with any psychological exams; which you'd also have to take.

I'm sorry to sound so technical, but in this situation I think you need information right away. Here are some websites which I urge you to check out:

http://www.geocities.com/lycium7/psychopathy.html


http://www.drjoecarver.com/loser.html


bunny

[Anonymous]

Thanks bunny.  I've looked at both sites and they are very helpful.  Yhe article on "The Loser" is excellent--very meaty.  I'm definitely in the detachment phase--letting go.  My state is a community property state,and I do have an attorney that I met with several months ago, but I'm not sure if she is up to the task of handling a psychopath/narcissist--as when I met with her my head was just spinning and I wasn't even considering a personality disorder.  You seem to have a lot of techinical knowledge, which I appreciate by the way.  Any ideas of how I could start a search for the right kind of attorney to handle this?  Have a great day Bunny.  I'm taking my kdis to AZ tomorrow with my closest friend of 20 years--We'll give each other lots of therapy and have some laughs too with 8 kids!  CSHF  (Countess shedding Her Fears)

[el123]

cplummer,

For many years, i would go through the "cycle of abuse" and feel emotionally a wreck when he was in the abusive stage. Sometimes all I could do at these times with my boys was basic sustanance needs--feed them, keep them clean, put them to bed--I was always crying. I feel as if I am a true Mother for the 1st time in my life.

I bet that you have been a good mother even when you felt that you were just doing the 'basics'. I've had this feeling myself at times.  It's horrible how we beat ourselves up so much as mothers.  It's almost always better in reality to them than we believe we are.  Good for you for doing the best for all involved.  This is hard.  But it shows what a good job you're doing!

We do enjoy the very simple things in life. I've already taken them ccamping twice this Spring by myself--something I had never previously done without my H. This is all very empowering for me. So it's all bittersweet. I

I don't know why but  the phrase "focus on the positives" keeps popping up when I read your post.  Good for you!  You can raise wonderful young men and I have no doubt that you will!  You have taken the first step in ridding an abusive/sadistic father from their lives.  This is hard and admirable. You may at times feel guilt and/ or ambivalence.  But just know that you have done what you have done out of love for both yourself and your family.  And that you have done the right thing.  I applaud you for that.  

but I have so much pain and anger that I also think I need to process before I can move forward. It's like, I'm looking back on the 8 years and realizing and admitting for the first time how I've been treated

I can feel the emotion here.  Of course you would need to process the pain first.  Like healing from a wound.  It's just a wound that you cannot see.  The emotional type.  But you can do it!  And emerge stronger than ever.  Your boys will be ok.  They will understand.

Take care of yourself and your sweet children (mine are 6, 4 and 2).  
-E

[Anonymous]

E,
It's late and I need to do a million things before I take my 2 kids and my sister's 2 kids to AZ tomorrow.  I just want to say thank you so very much.  Mother to Mother,  Healer to Healer, I appreciate your loving insight and affirmation.  I especially will be more gentle with myself about the pain and anger, using your analogy of a wound that needs to heal.  this is just so right on.  Enjoy your Babies.  They always will be to us, won't they.  Fondly, CSHF  (countess shedding her fears)