a quick question from someone who is still new to all this!

[Karin]

I've been trying to identify what it is about this thread that disturbs me so much.
I've come to the conclusion that Lissie was not listened to and words were put in her mouth.

I'm outta here, thanks Dr G and to all those who actually do listen, because only then is a response valid.
Karin.

[Portia]

Hey Karin,   thanks for saying what you have above.

I'm slightly bothered by Liss's two threads because of her younger age. The experiences must be a lot to take in at 17. Too much I would imagine.

But I'm unhappy that you are disturbed as you say above. This is about you. You don't have to leave. You can take your space here, talk about it. All voices have their place here. Whether they are 'listening' voices, advising from experience, shouting, whatever. I would hate to think that anyone felt they were silenced, I imagine everyone here feels at least similar about that?...gosh Karin, please don't feel you have to go, you have a place here, we all do...don't we???

[Yuki]

I feel badly about how this has turned out. I'm staring at my screen, not knowing what to say. I don't even know if Karin felt that I did something wrong. I'm not sure what, specifically, she was refering to.

I think we're all here to learn and grow. We're all in the middle of a learning process. It's not always going to go smoothly... but we can talk about it and learn from it.

Everyone has a voice here. All of our voices are valid.

[Portia]

Yuki, want a hug? (((((Yuki)))))
Karin too (((((Karin)))))

Yuki, I don't know what Karin means exactly. But I'm not going to read all the posts and put my interpretation on it because that still won't tell me what Karin thinks!

I just reacted to Karin being disturbed. I hope you come back Karin and talk about it. You've a great voice here.

Yuki, you've got a great voice too.

And I talk far too much.    

[bunny]

I've been trying to identify what it is about this thread that disturbs me so much.
I've come to the conclusion that Lissie was not listened to and words were put in her mouth.

I'm outta here, thanks Dr G and to all those who actually do listen, because only then is a response valid.
Karin.

Hm. I think she was listened to very closely. Unfortunately some of the feedback wasn't what she was prepared for. When posting on the internet, this happens because one asks for feedback and can't control what the feedback is. Hopefully there's a silver lining and what happened will lead her to some therapist that will help her through her family situation.

bunny

[bunny]

I think we're all here to learn and grow. We're all in the middle of a learning process. It's not always going to go smoothly... but we can talk about it and learn from it.

Everyone has a voice here. All of our voices are valid.

Well said.

I think the problem was that I questioned her mother's behavior; others added their thoughts to this. It was hard on the two posters to hear about mothers enabling a narcissistic husband and not protecting their kids. In fact it was traumatic. The reaction was an implication that we are the bad parents who traumatize children. That's okay as long as we can not take it personally. It shocked me at first to read it, but now I'm moving ahead.

bunny

[Portia]

I appreciated your posts bunny. Hugs all round from me ((((bunny))))

[mighty mouse]

Hi All,

If anything, I think the posters were very protective of Lissie and wanted to make sure she didn't take on an adult's cares and problems which were inappropriate for her age. We've all been there dealing with Ns and their enablers.

I hope she does get on with HER life and HER studies. I wish I had the opportunity to just be a kid and do what kids are supposed to do. I'm still fighting for my own identity in the world at the ripe old age of 46.

It will just take time (maybe a lot of time) for Lissie to process all that she read.

MM

[Yuki]

Ns have a distorted view of themselves and the world around them, right? Their enablers do too... they often don't see the N or the damage the N is doing clearly.

Some of the things Lissie said sounded to me like her parents' distortions and denial. NOT her own feelings or clear view of the situation. Which is of course to be expected from a 17 year old who has lived with a N and the N's enabler for her whole life! I actually thought she saw her father with remarkable clarity and it sounded like she already had a pretty good grasp on what his narcissism was all about. But I thought that her parents had put her into an unhealthy role in the family, and that she believed her family's distortions about what was normal and what was healthy.

I think part of the problem was that there were a few different levels of reality going on. The reality about herself and her family that Lissie believed. And the reality of her family that some of us saw. I think Karin may have been reacting to the fact that some of us were rejecting Lissie's "reality" about her family and were instead talking about the "reality" of her family that we believed instead.

I know Lissie came here to talk about her father and instead we started talking about something else that she wasn't prepared to talk about. I feel badly for her because of that. But I also think it would have been a disservice to her to not talk about what the real problem in her life was.

Karin had mentioned something about having been married to a N and getting through it with her own kids, I believe. So maybe us talking about the mother's role in the situation made her feel attacked. But we're all here because we've been under the thumb of a N at some point in our lives, right? We've probably all been enablers to some degree... We know it's not about being wrong or being to blame or being a bad person. It's about being emotionally healthy and setting healthy boundaries.

Portia, thanks for your kind words.

Yuki

[Anonymous]

One reason I was interested in this thread is that I have often wished that when I was 17 (or so) someone had talked to me honestly about the unhealthy dynamic in my family. It's possible that, like Lissie, I would have rejected the suggestion that my mother's practice of confiding in me and treating me like an ally against my father was unhealthy and poor parenting on her part. But at least it might have planted the seed, and maybe it wouldn't have taken me another 15 or so years to start to question my relationship with her.  

IMO, 17 is old enough to start thinking independently of your parents. I think the posters here were as careful as they could be in couching their comments in a kindly way, without being dishonest, which I don’t think would have been helpful to Lissie or anyone else.

Morgan