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a quick question from someone who is still new to all this!

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Yuki:
Hi Lissie,

I just want to second what Bunny said. It's not healthy when parents encourage a child to be involved in their problems. You shouldn't have to support her.

Your dad starting projects and then not finishing them sounds like my N mom. She'll do things like paint half of a room and then not get back to it for years, or rip up the floor tile in the bathroom and buy new tile but never get around to actually putting it in. Your dad getting upset when someone else finishes his unfinished projects is also something my M did! She would get behind on doing housework, but then if my dad or I did it, she'd accuse us of doing it to make her feel guilty! (it was our house too! We had to live there too!)

You're exactly right - Ns can't reason like other people do! I spent a long time trying to understand my mom's logic, but now I know that I never will be able to because it is so different from mine. Recognizing that and accepting it is a huge step!

I really get a sense of co-dependency in your family. That's why your mother stays with him even though it's so bad.

Take care,
Yuki

Karin guest:
Lissie Lou,
Just to clarify, of-course you should not be a confidante to your mother's marriage problems, she's responsible for that and does not involve you.

I don't see how (in my or your post) it was implied that you are or should be her confidante or support system??
You share a common problem with your mother, that being your narcissistic father. How he deals with you concerns her because she is also your parent and she has a responsibility to look after you, ie. you don't have to look after her.  But I think you know that.

Take care,
Karin

Anonymous:
Lissie Lou --


--- Quote ---Yeah Mum knows about this condition - in fact, she only admitted to me yesterday that she knew he had it about 2 years ago. she just never told me because she was worried I wouldn't understand or would stress heaps etc. I don't think she has coped very well in how to deal with him; only from the point that I realise now that one should never argue with an N or disagree with him. But Mum really struggles to just let Dad win all the time. It is SOOOO hard to accept that they CAN'T REASON like we do; that Dad can't and will never be able to think of other people's point of view... So yeah I think Mum has felt heaps better that I know now and we can support each other and keep each other from going insane!
--- End quote ---


The concern I have in reading your comment above is that it sounds as though you and your Mum, now that you understand your Dad is an N, seem to have the idea that naming his behavior somehow excuses it -- that he can't help it, and that it's up to you to accommodate him.

In my opinion, this is not healthy. You should be able to live a normal life, without you and your Mum tip-toeing around your Dad.

I hope you'll follow the advice given elsewhere to seek counselling, and suggest that your Mum look into this as well. I know you said she is embarrassed to admit things aren't perfect, but I think it would help both of you a lot.

Warm wishes to both of you.

Morgan

Anonymous:
Whoa I'm sorry, I'm getting quite confused...

Firstly - I don't think I'm a confidante to Mum? I feel like we're best friends, and we can share a lot together. I don't expect Mum to deal with this without me being there - we're in the same family together, the same house together everyday... So naturally I share what she's going through and vice versa because a lot of it is the same?

But I'm also confused about:


--- Quote ---The concern I have in reading your comment above is that it sounds as though you and your Mum, now that you understand your Dad is an N, seem to have the idea that naming his behavior somehow excuses it -- that he can't help it, and that it's up to you to accommodate him.
--- End quote ---


If Dad can't reason anything - can't empathise with our points of view etc, then what is the point of stating what we think or getting annoyed when he will never come to accept that he may be wrong??? If he won't accommodate us, then shouldn't we to him?

I'm in the middle of my final year at school, and doing well is terribly important to me - so Mum and I know that we've both got to stick it out at least until the end of the year in order to avoid any disruptions. We have also built a new house, it's about 3 years old, so we can possibly sell that and then go our separate ways with Dad at the end of the year.

But another thing really pulls at my heart - if Mum and I won't stick around, no one will. What happens if God is planning to do a miracle in his life and Mum and I just leave. Dad would NOT be able to cope at all - I don't even want to imagine what he would be if we left. We are the last bit of hope for him... And I would feel guilty for the rest of my life for leaving him... He's my dad - if I left, I seriously wonder if he'd be ruined....

Confusion!!


--- Quote ---I really get a sense of co-dependency in your family. That's why your mother stays with him even though it's so bad.
--- End quote ---


Financially dependent yes - but Mum is the kind of person who can make it on her own. She's always done everything without Dad 'cos he is so incapable of doing anything himself, besides earning a living which keeps us there.... Hmmm....

Thanks heaps

Karin:
Lissie Lou,
I'm sure you're going to get a lot of advice and there will be people who will explain things to you far better than I can about the nature of a Narcissist.

You're right, you can't argue with your father; he won't accomodate you. But that does not mean that he gets to rule your life. You love him, he's your Dad and that's fine, but that does not give him any rights over you or your mother. You were not put on this planet to serve him regardless of whether he has a disorder or not. You (and your mother) have the same rights that he does. The right to live your life the way you want, and not under some obligation that he has deemed.

One of the narcissist's best weapon is to feign helplessness, designed to keep those near at their beck and call. You'd be surprised how well in fact he would survive without you and your mother. He would fuss and panic for a while, but his life would go on. Another one is to foster guilt.

You know that you are not responsible for your mother, and you are certainly not responsible for your father either; he's a grown man for goodness sake.

Please, please Lissie, don't under-estimate the damage that a N can do, or even how much he has already done to you and your mother. It worries me that you think that there might be a miracle. There won't be.

Sorry to sound so dramatic, please keep reading and learning about N's. They'll destroy your soul, if you let them.
Karin.

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