Need help... N roomie is difficult

[Bella_French]

Dear Gabben,

I think your living situation is  `inately ' difficult, if that makes sense.  You are not a `room-mate' exactly; you are trying to live like a room mate, but in reality your `room-mates' are  boarders, not room-mates, and they not equals in any way. You are their landlord.  I draw this distinction because you're the only one with any power, whereas  the term `room-mates'  usually refers to a bunch of people sharing accommodation with equal rights, which is not the case in your scenario.

I think the biggest problem with your control over the situation is that as a landlord, your terms for boarding goes beyond the usual requirements, such as paying rent and bills on time and  being clean. Also,  your boarders are afforded much less privacy than is the normto the point where you dictate how theys should live, and deny them the right to conduct romance in the safety of their own residence.

To be frank, I would never sign a lease where the landlord wanted to live with me, and also dictate my romantic life. It would be absurd. Thats not because I'm an N, but because I've experienced normal leases and they do not include such things as livign with me or not allowing guests of my choosing.

I can only imagine that more experienced boarders staying in  your accommodation would feel the lack of privacy and resent the unreasonable terms, based on general experience.








 

[alone48]

Bella,

I agree to a point, they supposedly knew coming in that those were the terms. Also, Lise, do you hold yourself to the same standard? No male overnight guest? I could see that being a problem if it is only for the renters, but if it's a house rule, they all knew it coming into the situation.

[Gabben]

Hi Bella and alone48,

Yes, my renters knew the situation and no "sleepover rule" coming into the house.

Since I am Catholic I do not support premarital sex (no tomatoes please) I know that is not a popular stance in our culture today. I have my convictions and though I am not forcing them on others (or even judging) who live with me I am just reinforcing my beliefs under my own roof. If others do not agree then they don't move in.

Originally, when I first took over the lease 5 years ago, there was no such rule has to whether or not roommates could have guests or not. In the past, roommates would have guys trapping through the apartment during the week and on weekends and it was uncomfortable for me and the others roommates to hear the sex noises, wake up to strange guys making coffee in our kitchen and taking long showers when the other roommates needed to use the bathrooms. The male guests also seemed to take up part-time residence in the apartment and found my living room couch to be a great hang out most nights of the week. This was a privacy issue that affected the entire house. At one point, one roommate suggested another roommate's boyfriend start paying rent too because he slept at our apartment almost every night of the week. With four females, hopefully, you can see the potential conflict men sleeping over can create.

A couple of years ago my roommate, who was also my friend, suggested that we create the no men sleepover rule, if people want to spend time with their boyfriends they then were going to have to go to their boyfriends place at night. This worked beautifully and most roommates, who move in, really appreciate the level of privacy it creates as well as the feeling of safety and the host of problems that are eliminated by this house rule.

If people don't like the rule then they just don't have to rent from me.

Also, I am not the landlord in a technical sense, I am the master tenant renting from the landlord (who lives in another city) the roommates are the subtenants and by my city laws have to respect me, the master tenant as the law, so to speak, if they don't like the living situation I provide then they have to move out.

My landlord loves me as his master tenant because normally I get a long well with roomers, treating them fairly and because I am responsible, quiet and clean.

Hope that gives some clarity.

Lise

[Gabben]

Lise,

I reread what you wrote and something jumps out at me - take it or leave it. 

You said she has decided to move out...but goes back and forth with you.

Why not just give her a timeline.  Why let it be at her convenience?  Is it convenient for you to be left wondering?  I'm not saying you have to get angry and lose your cool, I'm saying what if you just look at the objective facts.  She's expressed her desire to move out.  You're trusting her intent, now you need to know when because you're going to be lining up a new roommate.

Business.  simple

Else, she is playing a game with you and that's what you're trying to avoid, right?  Take the emotion out of it.  This person is paying you rent.  If she leaves, you'd like another renter - another source of income for you.  That's what a roomie is, nothing more nothing less.  right?

bean

Hi Bean,

Thanks for this, yes, I need to be firm and assertive with her. What amazes me is that N's think that assertive behavior is abuse, that being direct, yet tactful is bullying....I'm going to remain true to my feelings of discomfort with her, express myself tactfully and let her know that I want her to move out in 30 days, when she gets back from her trip that is.

Your post is encouraging....Thank you, it is not easy for me to assert myself but I am so tired of being a doormat.

Lise

[Gabben]

Lise, I have similar problems with letting people into my space and I have decided that the Narc, my son, who is sponging off me has to go. I am about to give up my house, I can't afford the continual rate hikes, and especially not when my newly qualified apprentice son thinks he should be allowed to live all privileges free in this home, admittedly there are no girls, and no parties but it is the attitude that pervades that gets under my skin. I will be selling my house and my son has been told that this is what I am doing and I am retiring. I will be 59 in May. I might have to wait until next year to get the government pension but in the meantime, I am starting to contemplate downsizing so I don't have to put up with anyone other than myself to deal with. I find it is the only way. We have been so badly damaged that we have to have total control of our environment. At least, that is the way I see it.

Kim

Hi Kim,

I'm so glad that you are here! Thanks for your post.

Yes, we do have to control our environment, agreed. But it has to be done with integrity and respect for others. You sound like you are on that path. It is difficult to understand your situation completely, please write more if you can, I sense that you are taking steps to let go of a home that you had for a long time and that there is uncertainty and tension as well as it is challenging to assert yourself with your son because he sees you as a bit of an object in his way from furthering his own personal agenda, correct me if I am wrong please.

This is hard stuff you and I am in and it can trigger memories from our FOO stuff, if our FOO stuff is not what created the situation in the first place meaning that we, those of us who came from abusive families tend to gravitate towards old familiar patterns of uncomfort and being taken advantage of.

(((Kim))) Glad you are here -- Lise

[Bella_French]

Dear Gabben,

I am not doubting your `right' to set house rules, nor the responsibility of the girls for accepting those rules. But like I said,  the rules are inherently `difficult' because they violate the rights of other adults to practice their own beliefs in their own home. (its their home too, so long as they pay money to live there) . The rules also fail to offer the girls room to explore their own feelings and thoughts about theology, without being threatened with eviction. So many young adults come into Catholicism because they were brainwashed by their parents from early childhood. Then as young adults, they start to think for themselves, and a certain portion at least explore other ideas, if not adopt new ones completely. Its the nature of things.

I have my convictions and though I am not forcing them on others  (or even judging) who live with me I am just reinforcing my beliefs under my own roof. If others do not agree then they don't move in.


I believe you ARE forcing your beliefs on your residents, because they are forced to practice YOUR beliefs in THEIR home. If any one of them develops an alternative belief or theology to yours, as young adults are prone to do, they would naturally feel violated and uncomfortable with practicing your religious beliefs in THEIR home.

The way I see it, so long as these remain the terms for your boarders, the kinds of disturbances you've described will be a natural by-product. The `disturbing' girls will be the more free-thinking ones, with a sense of their own rights.

 For a lot of young people, stability is very important, and the relationships formed in one's home are a big part of their lives. I think it would be natural for a resident to feel upset and even frightened at the thought of losing their home. And perhaps the resentment towards you arises then because they feel overly controlled, and sad about leaving?? Its just a thought.



 

[Gabben]

For a lot of young people, stability is very important, and the relationships formed in one's home are a big part of their lives. I think it would be natural for a resident to feel upset and even frightened at the thought of losing their home. And perhaps the resentment towards you arises then because they feel overly controlled, and sad about leaving?? Its just a thought.

Hi Bella,

Yep, I absolutely agree with above...people are going to feel resentment and fear at the thought of being asked to move out of their living situation this has caused me great concern and is part of the reason I have posted here. However, I too know resentment and fear with my roommate Jess's dishonest, manipulative and aggressive as well as at times hurtful behavior.


With all else you write, I disagree. I like my rule and I am not imposing my beliefs just asking that people don't bring overnight guests which is a very reasonable request, people can believe what they want.

There is also a no drug use rule, do you think that infringes on peoples free choice or liberties or that I am forcing my belief that drugs are destructive on roommates? Or, am I imposing on peoples freedom of speech to ask them to not gossip about each other because it creates problems?


Question: are you pro-choice?

Once again, this is my home and I get to set the rules, if the people who move in don't like them then they can "free think" for themselves and find another place to live.

Thanks for your input Bella, but no thanks...too many people respect my rule and think the way I do in regards to male sleepovers, call me old fashioned but I know in my heart that I am doing the right thing.

BTW -- I am a young person too.

Lise

[Gabben]

Bella,

Did it occur to you that you may be trying to impose your beliefs on me on my thread, your beliefs that my asking people to not have overnight guests infringes on their civil liberties?

Lise

[Bella_French]

No Gabben, because I have no power to that. We are equals having a discussion. The difference is that in your situation, you have the power to evict your residents for practicing different beliefs in their home, and they understand that. Obviously some resent it.

Gabben, I have a direct way about me, but i want you to know that I mean you no offense. I couldn't think of a way to describe my thoughts without illustrating the power dynamic in your home to you. It seemed to me that your residents beahviour is a source of confusion to you, and you have even accused them of being `N's'. I hoped to show you that their behaviour is more of a (natural) reaction to the type of control you exert.

Bella

 

[Gabben]

It seemed to me that your residents behaviour is a source of confusion to you, and you have even accused them of being `N's'. I hoped to show you that their behaviour is more of a (natural) reaction to the type of control you exert.

Actually I have only accused one of them as being an N...read carefully. All other roommates that I have lived with in many recent years have been decent, good and have expressed agreement with me on the no men sleepover rule.

Also, I am not in confusion about my roommates behavior...no, I KNOW THAT SHE IS Narcissistic...big time N.

Nothing you write or say will change anything and I don't want to argue here with you.

Your postings to me are causing me to trigger about my N mom and her telling me that what I am experiencing and what I am feeling are not what I am experiencing an that my wants, needs, and desires are not valid.

You are causing a trigger for me to doubt myself which is what my N mom did to me for years and you are causing a trigger for me to feel crazy as I and the one with the problem here...if you only knew the bad behavior of my roommate you would not be coming to her defense at the expense of my hurt.

The trigger is good though because I can step back from board for a while and process the pain that is coming up for me.

The next time someone comes along, with your type if input, I will be even stronger and less reactionary...true to myself, heart and mind.


Lise

[Bella_French]

For a lot of young people, stability is very important, and the relationships formed in one's home are a big part of their lives. I think it would be natural for a resident to feel upset and even frightened at the thought of losing their home. And perhaps the resentment towards you arises then because they feel overly controlled, and sad about leaving?? Its just a thought.

Hi Bella,

Yep, I absolutely agree with above...people are going to feel resentment and fear at the thought of being asked to move out of their living situation this has caused me great concern and is part of the reason I have posted here. However, I too know resentment and fear with my roommate Jess's dishonest, manipulative and aggressive as well as at times hurtful behavior.


With all else you write, I disagree. I like my rule and I am not imposing my beliefs just asking that people don't bring overnight guests which is a very reasonable request, people can believe what they want.

There is also a no drug use rule, do you think that infringes on peoples free choice or liberties or that I am forcing my belief that drugs are destructive on roommates? Or, am I imposing on peoples freedom of speech to ask them to not gossip about each other because it creates problems?


Question: are you pro-choice?

Once again, this is my home and I get to set the rules, if the people who move in don't like them then they can "free think" for themselves and find another place to live.

Thanks for your input Bella, but no thanks...too many people respect my rule and think the way I do in regards to male sleepovers, call me old fashioned but I know in my heart that I am doing the right thing.

BTW -- I am a young person too.

Lise

Yes Gabben, I your policies on drugs and gossip are also a form of using your power to control your residents behaviour in their home. I'm not making a value judgement regarding your beliefs (as I share some of them) , I'm just calling it what it is: control.

You obviously feel justified exerting this level of control, I don't know what to say about that. Maybe you just need a lot of control, and your in a position of power so you can get that.

 All I'm saying is that I think the disruptions you described are natural response to control that extends to dictating the . It doesn't make your residents N's.







I'm not sure what you could do, but your attitude towards `free thinkers' might be softened a little if you could understand their feelings from their persepctive? (w2hich i am trying to offer ). You might get some good results from them by offering some understanding instead of thinking of them as N's and resenting them.

[Gabben]

Thanks Bella.

Bye,
Lise

[Bella_French]

Gabben, i typed my last response to you whilst you were typing yours; sorry.

Ok, I trust  you if you say your disruptor is an N. I'm sure you've researched it and know the signs.

I'm really sorry to hear about your N-mom causing you to doubt your opinions and reality. Maybe this is part of why you need to be surrounded by people who reinforce your beliefs? Maybe thats what you need to heal, and to feel safe right now. I do not begrudge you that, and like you said you are able to find residents who share your beliefs. I wish the idea of people having alternate beliefs was not threatening to you, because it would provide your residents with a more egalitarian environment, that didn't violate their rights to explore new ideas. But i do understand your reasoning. I can empathise with you, as i was hurt by my N-mother too.

X bella

[Gabben]

Once again, thanks Bella and peace to you.

I ran my house rules by an therapist friend of mine who is non-catholic and does not share the same values and beliefs that I do yet I really enjoy her and like "surrounding" myself, from time to time by her company. She says that I would be crazy to not set some limits with roommates, she said that I am doing a good thing by setting some rules.

Lise

[Bella_French]

Dear Gabben,

I really am sorry to have aroused pain in you. I mean that!!!

May I please ask you a question? I would really like to have further discussions with you, and help you to feel welcome on this board. You are  interesting and seem thoughtful and kind to me. I feel that what you have to say is valuable here.

My question is, do I cause you pain when i disagree with you in general? Would it make things easier if I spoke up only when I agreed, and can  offer you validation, or are some types of disagreements ok? I really have trouble understanding the perspective of someone who grew up being abused in the specific way you described. In fact, i always have and I could use a bit of help, if you care to guide me?

X Bella