Author Topic: Evil?  (Read 5552 times)

Leah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2894
  • Joyous Discerner
Re: Evil?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2008, 01:56:17 PM »
Ami,

  I suspect the difference is your friend thought you were behaving incorrectly by punishing yourself whereas your M probably believes you are doing the right thing because you deserve it. She's not going to 'help you out' when she think's it's appropriate.
  Ns always believe others around them deserve punishment to keep them in line.

mud


Mud,

That so resonates with me, in regard to my N Mother, who truly did, does, believe, that those around her deserve puishment, always, one at a time.

Thank you.

Leah
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Certain Hope

  • Guest
Re: Evil?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2008, 02:03:54 PM »

I wouldn't take her word about what she actually knew.   At least in my experience this believing they KNEW things is part of the standard N repertoire of behaviors.  The need to feel right and knowledgeable leads them to distort their own memories and perceptions.  My N-autistic father does it all the time.   No matter what happens, he claims he knew it was going to happen in advance.   I think it's a sort of a God complex.  Knowledge makes them powerful and keeps them from realizing what they can't (or couldn't) control.   

Just recently I had a cousin die of unnatural causes (as yet undetermined) and when my father called me to give me the news, he claimed he KNEW it was going to happen.  Well it seems kind of evil of him to know something and not do anything to prevent it happening.  But of course he never actually knew anything.  He's just making this false claim in the present moment. 

So I'd say your mothers actions are definitely N-ish, but I wouldn't jump to believing her past actions were consciously evil.  She's just an N being an N and this sort of distortion is typical. 

 

Dear tjr,

Although my understanding is that Ami's mother did not claim any such foreknowledge or omniscience,
I wanted to tell you how very much your post resonates with me and my dealings with some people.. both family and friends...
to whom you can simply never, ever tell anything that they don't already claim to know!  Wow, it gets monotonous.
I absolutely agree with you about that control complex and
my sense of it has been that they're just so very afraid of being caught unprepared or uninformed, that they're alot like the little kid
who, when he messes up, will say, "I meant to do that!"

Anyhow, I always appreciate your posts and... my condolences on the loss of your cousin.

Sincerely,
Carolyn

Leah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2894
  • Joyous Discerner
Re: Evil?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2008, 02:06:10 PM »
Dear Leah,

I'm sorry. I didn't expect you to react so strongly, or I probably wouldn't have said a thing. Clearly I didn't word my post properly. I got the idea that you were making an assessment based on these words of yours:

So, M pronounces with an air of N Superiority "I knew that you had stomach aches"

It was not your use of the word evil which led me to the thought that you'd made an assessment, but rather the above phrase.

Love,
Carolyn


Dear Carolyn,

I see how your misunderstanding has occurred, with the misinterpretation of .... So,  ......  is a question.   Hope that clarifies.

BTW, I only voiced in response with explanation, and validation, truly, I did not react.

"it's good to talk"  :)

hope your have a super weekend.

Love to you,

Leah


PS >  I * see * that Ami is going to phone her M to clarify.

Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

towrite

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
Re: Evil?
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2008, 02:09:30 PM »
My definition of evil is an act on another person(s) that is harmful without remorse and with the definite sense of gain for the perpetrator. There can be lots of types of "gain" but there is only one type of "lack of remorse".

I agree with Mudpuupy and find his answer very astute - N's, IMO, do want you to suffer, esp. when they're in the throes of protecting themselves.

Kate
"An unexamined life is a wasted life."
                                  Socrates
Time wounds all heels.

Leah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2894
  • Joyous Discerner
Re: Evil?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2008, 02:11:14 PM »
Dear tjr100

My sincere thoughts for you, with your recent sad loss.

Love and much Peace,

Leah

Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Leah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2894
  • Joyous Discerner
Re: Evil?
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2008, 02:15:29 PM »
Dear Kate,

I resonate, and agree, with your summation.

And am grateful at this time, today, for Mud's valuable validation, regarding my N Mother.

Leah
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

mudpuppy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1276
Re: Evil?
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2008, 02:40:14 PM »
Quote
That so resonates with me, in regard to my N Mother, who truly did, does, believe, that those around her deserve puishment, always, one at a time.

What's truly kind of comical in its profound sense of entitlement is, that while everyone around them deserves constant punishment, they think merely having to share the planet with the likes of us is more punishment than they themselves could ever deserve.

mud

Leah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2894
  • Joyous Discerner
Re: Evil?
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2008, 03:02:49 PM »
Ami,
I actually had another thought about your situation. You said you got your stomach ache after your Aunt said she thought you were emotionally fine. Are you fine emotionally? What was your response to your Aunt after she said this?

From other posts of yours, I can see that you have a deep love and affection for your Aunt and put a lot of stock in what she says. Perhaps you felt dismissed or not heard by her?

This is how I envision it.

Ami: My dearest Aunt, I feel like a mess.
Aunt: You seem fine to me.
Ami: (confused and a bit hurt): Yeah, okay. You must be right.
Stomach ache: Oooh. Where's Ami? I've missed her so.

Just a different view. I could be waaaay off.

Lollie

Oh Lollie,

I can * see * just how and why, Ami would have the stomach ache after speaking with her Aunt

That resonates with me, especially, in my thoughts and work yesterday and today, and posting, regarding working on how one is DISMISSED.

That confirms for me also, as a person, why my tummy churned after speaking with my N Mother, who had a PhD in DISMISSING  (honestly).

Ami: (confused and a bit hurt): Yeah, okay. You must be right.
Stomach ache: Oooh. Where's Ami? I've missed her so.


........... then Ami comes off the phone and posts onto the board, and if unfortunately, for Ami, we don't happen to 'get it'

.... Ami remains 'lost in a void of confusion' and then Ami's stomach ache gets worse!!   maybe?


Just a thought as I * see * how that could be.

Love, Leah

Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Bella_French

  • Guest
Re: Evil?
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2008, 05:47:23 PM »

Dear Ami, Your M may be evil, or just capable of acts of evil sometimes. I think of `psychopaths' as the evil ones, because they consciously think out their actions, fully aware of the pain and harm they cause. N's tend to react to what feels good, and what feels bad, perhaps like everyone else. But their actions can be so harmful, I wonder whether it really matters if they are motivated by unconscious needs or not??

Ami, may I ask, what are you ashamed of? Is there anything `real'? You are a lovely , beautiful woman, loved by many people, generous and loyal to friends, funny, honest, a great listener, a good mother of two sons. What else do you expect to be, Ami? What more can a woman be? I know how you feel though; I struggle to accept myself too, but i am half the woman you are. I am not beautiful and i struggle against my shame for being like this, and I do not have a home or a family, or any wealth. I have good things though, that I am grateful to have - my aprtner's companionship each day, and his love, animals around me, some passions to keep me interested in life. But its so much less than what you have Ami. I could only dream of being in your position some day!

I suppose I'm getting side-tracked now, sorry Ami. I am sorry your stomach problems are still bad, and i admire you for continuing to try to work through that.

X bella












Ami

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7820
Re: Evil?
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2008, 05:51:23 PM »
Oh Bella
 I am so HUMBLED that you would think of me that way. I can't even write,now. I will write,later. Thank you for your kind words. They are so beautiful and healing to me!         Love    Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Ami

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7820
Re: Evil?
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2008, 10:16:18 AM »
Dear Carolyn, Leah, Mud, tjr100, Lollie, towrite, Bella,
  Thank you for your responses. I talked to my M last night. I guess that I had it wrong. She was NOT withholding information so she could stay in a 'better" position than I.
  She did not know the answer.
 Lollie, what happened was when my Aunt complimented me, I got a stomach ache to 'Punish" myself for being "normal" and "good" BEFORE my M could punish me.
  That is my "dynamic". I am afraid of my own power b/c my M made me "pay" for  confidence and trust in myself. I would give up anything to stop the monster(my M's rage) from coming out.
  So, that is what happened with my Aunt and my M.
  I have to be comfortable with my own power. Otherwise, I will stay an abused person--bleh.That is my current journey.
 I always have to remember that ALL this pain humbled me enough to find God and it was a very small price to pay. Thank you so much for being there for me--every caring friend that responded. Love came over the computer in to my heart.                                           Carolyn and Leah,  I want you  to know that I had a situation ,yesterday where I used some of the things you taught me.
  I had a group of friends , believers in Jesus, who I parted ways with 10 years ago. I saw them ,yesterday. I treated THEM how YOU  treated me, with love and forgiveness. They treated me the SAME way.It was like there was never any rift. We talked about old times ,kids,life , maturing, mistakes etc. We laughed . It was the power of Jesus and trying to act in love.
  Thank you for the lessons. I learned about real life,once again, on the board.          Love   Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Certain Hope

  • Guest
Re: Evil?
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2008, 11:35:31 AM »
Thank you for the update, Ami. I think you did really well to get clarification and not just run off with your initial assumption. From what I've experienced, that's what it takes to step into maturity.... not that I'm there (yet), but determined to continue putting one step in front of the other. I sense that you are committed to the same.

Colossians 3 is such a meaningful portion of the Bible to me...
Set your affections on things above - - -  what a deliberate act of will, to set our mind, will, and emotions - to fix them, consciously - onto things spiritual, and not fleshly. That's what breaks off the old chains, which reside just as much in our own thinking as in anything a personality disordered person can do to us.

Love to you,
Carolyn

write

  • Guest
Re: Evil?
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2008, 11:45:09 AM »
these are YOUR choices Ami.
I have maintained a civil relationship with my ex despite the odds, I could not call myself a Christian and walk away from him in his suffering, though some people might say I should not call myself Christian anyway, since I don't believe in sacrements or worshipping Jesus as G_d!

Do you see what I am pointing out- it's perfectly okay to form your own view of things, and not be too worried if it leaves you out of step with others sometimes.

My therapist expressed it when she started with me and refused to see ex simultaneously as: it is very important if I am going to help you for me to support your reality. Doesn't make his right or wrong, just too different to be in both at the same time- I'm not that good!

Love
~W

Leah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2894
  • Joyous Discerner
Re: Evil?
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2008, 11:59:18 AM »
Yes, Write

I resonate with your posting on Choice.

As per my recent personal work on the subject, and posting, as we really do have the freedom of choice, which includes the freedom to ask questions, make a mistake, or change our mind.   :)

It is wonderful to own a view with an open heart, which I try to do, being teachable  ~  but, at the same time, with a healthy boundary of being closed to soul intrusion, now that I have learned.

"wonderful life" and an interesting one!   :)

Enjoy your day.

Love, Leah
« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 12:16:11 PM by LeahsRainbow »
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO

Leah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2894
  • Joyous Discerner
Re: Evil?
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2008, 12:15:01 PM »
Dear Ami

Thank you for your update, with such openness and maturity.

Blessed to know that Jesus is teaching and leading you.

And your time with your friends must have been so very liberating to your soul, for you, as a person.

Love to you and enjoy your day.

Love, Leah
Jun 2006 voiceless seeking

April 2008 - "The Gaslight Effect" How to Spot & Survive by Dr. Robin Stern - freedom of understanding!

The Truth About Abuse VIDEO