20/20 - narcissism in celebs

[Gaining Strength]

20/20 did a program tonight on celebrity and narcissism. 

The main point is the connection between anger and narcissism. 

One expert said that narcissism is growing in America.  he went onto say that some aspects of our culture exacerbate it, things like

[sunblue]

I saw the show....Very interesting but I'm not sure I buy everything they said.  There's no way that arrogant house flipper is a "reformed" narcissist.  In my view, anger is merely one of the symptoms of narcissism and is not always present.  It is possible I suppose with years of hard work and commitment to control your narcissistic behavior and personality...but no amount of meditation, psychics or any other quick fixes will work.

I also found that one doctor's take on "celebrity situational narcissism" to be a little odd.  I do think celebrities are more likely than the average population to be narcissists.  But I think narcissism tends to drive their choices to be in the public eye, to be celebrities...not vice versa.  Real, clinicial narcissism still stems from the same causes, celebrity or not.  Not to mention, by categorizing it as "situational", that doctor is inferring that if a person no longer was a celebrity, the narcissism would go away.  I don't believe that to be true.

Interesting nonetheless.  One thing for sure...I do believe men are more angry than women and that women tend to "stuff" their anger while men tend to vent.

[Gaining Strength]

Sunblue - your comments are very insightful.  In spite of your points I found the episode very interesting.  I am now watching the Dog Whisperer and trying to learn to apply "calm assertiveness" to my own struggles.  A nice balance to 20/20s program on Anger.

Izzy - watch and see what you think.

[Leah]

In the 1960s historians and social critics drew the attention of the general public to narcissism as a metaphorical description of Western culture in general. These writers saw several parallels between trends in the larger society and the personality traits of people diagnosed with narcissistic disorders.   In short, they argued that the advanced industrial societies of Europe and the United States were contributing to the development of narcissistic disorders in individuals in a number of respects. Some of the trends they noted include the following:

• The mass media's preoccupation with "lifestyles of the rich and famous" rather than with ordinary or average people.
  
  Social approval of open displays of money, status, or accomplishments ("if you've got it, flaunt it") rather than modesty and self-restraint.
  
  Preference for a leadership style that emphasizes the leader's outward appearance and personality rather than his or her inner beliefs and values.
  
  The growth of large corporations and government bureaucracies that favor a managerial style based on "impression management" rather than objective measurements of performance.
  
  Social trends that encourage parents to be self-centered and to resent their children's legitimate needs.
  
  The weakening of churches, synagogues, and other religious or social institutions that traditionally helped children to see themselves as members of a community rather than as isolated individuals.

Although discussion continues about the location and forms of narcissism in the larger society, no one now denies that personality disorders both reflect and influence the culture in which they arise. 


Dear Gaining Strength,

Interesting thread, thank you.  In particular, as I had posted the above earlier. 

Over here, in 2007, there was a survey carried out among young people, and the outcome was astonishing.  A huge percentage wanted to be a Celebrity -- to be in the media, rich and famous, living an ostentatious life.

Being "ordinary and average" is, seemingly, out.

Love, Leah

[towrite]

GS, I was just gonna post the exact same thing. I was struck by the public covering of N'ism and especially of the anger connection. I'm so glad others got to see it.

towrite

[towrite]

GS - we must have the same TV schedule  --- 20/20 and the Dog Whisperer. He always calms me.

[emptied]

This made me think about the fact that not too long ago I read the book "The Devil Wears Prada." Now the boss at this place was an N and believe me, everyone that worked there suffered for it. I am thinking about watching the movie. In the book it was interesting to see how even Adults that grew up in Normal families can get pulled in by the N...

E

[Gaining Strength]

When will I learn to not watch these shows???? There is so little to learn!
signing of for the night

Well Izzy - I suggested it LOL.  Sorry for pulling you in.

Towrite - that's funny that you watched the same shows.  I enjoyed both - hope you did too.

LeahsRainbow - I find this connection VERY interesting.  It is very telling about our society.  I wonder what that has to do with people denying the very destructive nature of Ns.

emptied - Nina Brown who wrote about Adult Children of the Self-Absorbed came to be interested in the effects of Ns because she was drawn in by Ns and left feeling dreadful.

[Hermes]

Hello to Leah, and everyone:

What I find rather strange is what people see as "celebs".  Many of the so called celebs have done nothing to attain that so called "status".  We have a magazine over here (always to be found in hairdressers"s salons LOL) called "HELLO".  It is just appalling, and I would be embarrassed to be seen reading it. 

Having said that, many fine actors give us so much pleasure in their screen or stage portrayals.  They work hard, and I expect their life can be difficult at times.  Often because they are so good at their job they move into the "celeb" category.  The same with good singers and musicians.  Our lives would be so dull without the talented entertainers, IMO. 
I daresay there are Ns among their ranks, bound to be, if only statistically.

All the best
Hermes

P.S.  I am a September Libran, so always trying to be even-handed, not that I am always successful....

[Leah]

LeahsRainbow - I find this connection VERY interesting.  It is very telling about our society.  I wonder what that has to do with people denying the very destructive nature of Ns.

Hi GS,

Me too, very much so, Narcissism and social science aspect, regarding both, US and Europe, is of particular interest.

Your point regarding the very destructive nature of Ns, is of great interest.

Love, Leah

[alone48]

Do you not think that the Nism helped contribute to their becoming a celeb? When you think that highly of yourself, your bound to find others that do if you're able to package it right. MY ex N was in show biz and I found alot of his friends along with him were very shallow, but knew how to portray the necessary feelings for short time, is that not an N? I think I'll go to bed as I know I'm rambling.

[Gaining Strength]

That makes alot of sense to me alone48.  This seems to be the age of narcissism to me.  It seems to be a difficult time to get over the effects of Ns because people seem to be sycophants to the Ns and discounting to the N victims.

[Leah]

That makes alot of sense to me alone48.  This seems to be the age of narcissism to me.  It seems to be a difficult time to get over the effects of Ns because people seem to be sycophants to the Ns and discounting to the N victims.

 GS,

Wholeheartedly agree.

In particular, with regard to my recent reading on the subjct of "Hypercompetitiveness" ~ which may be of interest.

http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=6914.msg111294#msg111294

Leah