Victimhood vs Voicelessness

[JoJo]

My thoughts as a non-poster/long-term regular reader,

It seems to me that there's a lot more 'victimhood' than 'voicelessness' on this (now) christian dominated forum. Also there seems to be a serious amount of baiting and aggression from (supposed) christian recoverers, under the guise of growth and 'practice for the real world' here. 

The idea that it's okay to over-react, offend and fight here!!! is a little bit self-absorbed, I think anyway. The excuse I so often read is that (supposedly???)  it enables/prepares us for dealing in the real world. That sounds very N to me, and just a bit... no no ... so very self-absorbed. I think most of us are real, and from the real world.

Goes like this... "Oh good, now I have somewhere I can blow off steam, bully, be insensitive, and I don't have to care about how it affects the receiver/blowee."

Who does that sound like?

What about the other party who is here because they're in the exact same boat as you? They're just like you. They're here too because life's just not so great for them either. Or they wouldn't be here! They're voiceless/recovering/searching persons too, who're simply seeking recovery and hopefully???? support...  just like you?

I wonder if it's too much to ask on a forum designed to recognise and deal with voicelessness issues resulting from N'ism, to think about the other party's feelings when you feel to express/post a different opinion???  And think with your heart (think non-N) of the feelings of the one you think has triggered you, or you're accusing/attacking or reacting to?

I still quite enjoy reading here at this forum, but I must say it's changed over the years. It seems to me to be so much more about victimhood now than ever before. And very much less about true voicelessness.

It also almost reads as a victim race sometimes. The rules seem to be that the one who has the worst story of victimhood has the greater right to inflict insult and injury on other members.

And why is it that with religion, and especially christianity, comes intolerance? I've noticed that here too. And this bizzare christian desire that their enemies will burn in hell? That's not very loving and forgiving, is it? That's another of my humble observations and confusions. 

‘With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil – that takes religion.’ - Steven Weinberg

I wonder if in recovery, and having decided on being a victim no more, if we can be different to the N's in our lives.
I wonder if we can be different in our relating to one another, different to the one's who affected our development, and I wonder if we can make a decision, no matter what, to be kind to each other regardless, realising we're not there yet either. With or without a God to tell us we 'MUST" be kind.

Kindest regards to all.
JoJo

[Certain Hope]

Hi, JoJo,

Welcome... to posting. I think you've made some valid points and I hope you'll continue sharing your thoughts and views and feelings here.

Also, I think it would be interesting and enlightening to hear whether your views change at all, after engaging as a more active participant (if that's what you choose to do). During my own silent times, I find that my perspective is far more ivory-tower-ish than when I'm actually in the mix, engaging on a regular basis with people in the throes of their own feelings and needs.. along with my own.

The above is not any indication or accusation that I think you're taking an ivory tower attitude, either. To me, your observations are fairly accurate and reasonable. Just saying that for myself, personally, the view is quite different at ground level than it is as a mute observer. I appreciate your post as a reminder of the need for balance, rather than a demand for perfection.

Again, welcome!

Sincerely,
Carolyn

[CB123]

Welcome to the board, JoJo.

I think your long term reading and lurking has given you some perspective. I want to give you some validation that you are seeing something that is really happening--the board has changed a lot in the last several months.  

I hope you will continue to read and lurk.  Use your own good judgment about whether to post or not.  But at any rate, you are very welcome here.

CB

[nogadge]

And I thought I was blunt , direct and to the point...I wish I had read your thread before I began stumbling over myown  posting about this.  I applaud you open honesty and have always embraced your words in your last paragragh (changing the way we look/feelact,ect.) to the point that I have tears streaming down my face after reading it.  That's why I have stayed with my ex van for 30+ years trying to change so many things with out success to the point that no matter how deeply I still love him, there is absolutely no point in ever trying to understand anymore.  I would give anything to have way to work, but there is none, and I cannot continue with pretending there is.  I have had to give up on him,  I can't have that choice anymore....we just don't work.  It is to expensive, and has cost too much, and I cannot afford it anymore.
Thank you for your thread, and what you said.
nogadge

[tayana]

Hi JoJo,

Welcome to the board, or at least posting the board.  I've been a regular reader here for a long time too, and I've noticed the last few months a change in the tone of the board.  I've considered abandoning it, in fact.  I'm still here though, mostly because I glean what I can from the board.

I still quite enjoy reading here at this forum, but I must say it's changed over the years. It seems to me to be so much more about victimhood now than ever before. And very much less about true voicelessness.

It also almost reads as a victim race sometimes. The rules seem to be that the one who has the worst story of victimhood has the greater right to inflict insult and injury on other members.

And why is it that with religion, and especially christianity, comes intolerance? I've noticed that here too. And this bizzare christian desire that their enemies will burn in hell? That's not very loving and forgiving, is it? That's another of my humble observations and confusions. 

I don't understand the intolerance that comes with religion, especially in religions that supposedly teach tolerance and love.  I don't see or feel a whole lot of tolerance from most religions, especially christianity.  I gave up on religion a long time ago and decided to have a personal relationship with the divine on my terms.

You're insights are spot on, and I do hope you will post more often.  I don't understand the change in temperment of the board, and I've given up trying.

[Mac]

I am new here today.  I have never read any responses here until an hour ago.  I am still having trouble trying to rid my email from being exposed, therefore, I am not sure I will be here for long.  

I agree with the person talking about "voicelessness vs. victimhood," with respect to using voice rather than to continue to victimize one self.  Living and loving a person suffering from narcissistic personality disorder is very difficult, particularly when it is one of your own, and being heard by them will never happen--ever!  The key is understanding this disorder and caring for yourself.  I have learned everything I need to know about narcissism and more.  I have been working on bettering my life, at the risk of many betrayals from family along the way.  But I was damn and determined to get healthy, and it can be done.  In time and with a lot of patience, the victim becomes courageous and is able to concentrate on his/her own voice and when he/she does, what an opportunity it is to being heard and respected for the voice you do indeed have!

Mac

[Hopalong]

Jo Jo,
Bless you for the fresh air.

A weary optimistic agnostic,
Hops

[teartracks]

Hi JoJo,

I hope you will come back and share more about yourself and especially your impression of the board.  I found your first thread very interesting, unafraid and insightful.

tt