Update with Elaine

[Elaine1966]

Group,
Just thought I would give you an update.  I am not doing so well with the NO CONTACT rule but I will say the only form of communication between my fiance and I is thru email.  I am trying to determine if his actions are true of N's.  I have stuck to my guns about us not seeing each other and taking a break.  He wrote me a long letter two nights ago and I was SHOCKED.  He was saying things like, "I took advantage of your love, I haven't treated you right, I don't know why I treat people the way I do, I want to get into therapy to help me with my emotions, I want to get back into church, I want to be a better person etc."  He stepped up to the plate and totally took responsibility for his past actions, not just with me but with people in his life in general.  It was very hard to read that letter as my heart melted.  Is that his motive or is he truly realizing that he needs to make some decisions in his life?  The man I have known for 4 1/2  years NEVER NEVER NEVER did that, so I am thinking maybe this has been a wake up call.

I stuck to my guns and told him that I was very proud of him, but that he had to prove it to me and only time would tell.  Everyday I go through the day with a very heavy heart.  I am just going through the motions.  How long do I have to do this????

Any thoughts from those who have "been there and done that?"

Elaine

[Ami]

Dear Elaine,
  I am sorry you are hurting. I don't have enough of a "feel" for the situation to give an answer, so I will just say that I am here and wish you maturity and wisdom,in dealing with the situation.    Love   Ami

[Elaine1966]

Thanks Ami for responding.  I need everyone's words of wisdom and encouragement  right now.

Take care,
Elaine

[lighter]

I don't know your history, Elaine.

If you requested NC with your fiance.....  and he went ahead and broke that.... then it's a red flag.

If he's making promises or saying what you always wanted to hear.... NOW....

you might consider that he's dangling a tantalizing carrot before you.....

but only willing to give you the stick, if you return.

As far as dxing him as an N, does it really matter what he is...... if he's not willing to honor you and consider your wellbeing, along with his own?

I think you already have the answers.... though your heard would like things to be different.

It would be easier if this particular fiance worked out, wouldn't it?

It's scary to picture starting over.... being alone..... maybe finding someone and maybe not.

At least you have him, right?

Not if he's going to sacrafice you.

Not if he has to drain you of every drop of esteem you have.

You're just adding to the timeline of unhappiness.

Best to just cut your losses and go forward, IMO.

Keeping in  mind I don't know what he's done to make you wonder if he's an N or not.

[Elaine1966]

I kmow you are all right.  I went to my counselor today.  I read her the letters he has emailed me.  She feels they are genuine, but her concern is......can he make it last?  She is afraid he doesn't have the skills or whatever it is, to make it stick long term, UNLESS he is totally committed to long term therapy.  Your right, these are not answers I want to hear, but I need to face reality.  I guess time will tell.  In the meantime, I will keep living this emotional rollercoaster ride within myself.

((((Hugs, Elaine))))

[lighter]

Just a suggestion,

If your fiance needs long term therapy to be ready for human consumption.....

he's not ready to become a husband.


Signing up for longterm pain and suffering, when you can go around it and choose someone who's respectful and lovingt, for sure, without long term therapy (that may or may not help) would be my suggestion.

Luck to you and remember...... it's really really hard to get divorced.

It's really really hard to get out of a relationship with an unstable person who has no empathy for you.

It's really really hard to go through the process of divorce with a person who will lie, cheat and commit crimes against you, esp when you're telling the truth and following the rules to your detriment.

It's a gutting helpless tragedy when children are at the mercy of people who have no empathy or ability to put their well being ahead of winning at all costs.

Esp when what they want to win makes absolutely NO sense.... it's about tearing the family apart and making you doubt your reality.

Just a crazy awful place to be and I'd never ever suggest that anyone, who can still avoid it, volunteer to step up to that plate.

No one's strong enough to heal someone with no empathy for others.

Everyone needs empathy to survive. 

I hope you don't have to learn that the hard way, Elaine.

[Elaine1966]

Lighter,
Thank you for your words.  It helps to hear this from someone else.  He just sent me a text saying "Missing you and wishing I could hold you."  This just absoulutely kills me!  I know I shouldn't be reading his text but I don't know who it is from until I open it and read it, then its too late.

Your so right about that needing long term therapy, why put myself in those shoes......just hurts so bad and I can make this immediate pain stop with one phone call to him.  But I am trying to stay as strong as possible, its almost unbearable!

Elaine

[axa]

Well three therapists and one psychiatrist in two years must be a bit of a record but that was my experience with XN.......yep, he did engage in therapy but truth be told he had no intention of changing or trying to change.  In fact I think he quite enjoyed the attention of the therapists.  I agree no contact is no contact, my guess is if you stick to that rule he will get bored and seek out another supply.........talk is cheap, believe behaviour.

Good luck

axa

[lighter]

You need some new activities, IMO.

Things that lift you up and fill you with feelings of accomplishment.

Great make up sex aint the same thing. ::shaking head::

It's fleeting and then you're stuck again with the same old problems.

They don't go away.

They grow and multiply then.... you're so confused and done so much damage that you can't figure out what was the original problem.  

That's not a path I'd choose ever again.  And I';ve chosen it enough times through my life to tell you..... let it go and work on you.

You can make much better choices, though it's going to take work and mindful focus on  your part.

I wish you the best life you can build for yourself.

BTW.... you can build nothing if someone's tearing you down as quickly as you're building.  Eventually you weaken and lose ground.  You build nothing.... you end up digging out of a hole and that's worse than just starting over, in the beginning, when you had a chance to make better choices.

One last long thought.....

"Be careful, Elaine.... while you still can."

[Elaine1966]

Axa and Lighter,
Well this evening I started to see the N come out again.  As I said earlier, I received that text message late this afternoon saying he missed me and wanted to hold me.  Later he texts me again saying that he called the therapist and left a message.  I replied "good job."  He again tells me he misses me.  Then he says:
"Guess you don't feel like talking about missing me, you seem short like you have better things to do."  I then remind him I need my space.
He replies: "well you want me to show you my feeling and you act like I'm bothering you, I'm confused."
My response: "I don't mean to confuse u.  Right now we are taking a break so both of us can get our minds and hearts right."
His response: "I understand that we are taking a break you have made it known several times. Thx for telling me again."
At this point I don't respond and I get back this:
"You act like I am bothering you by telling you how I feel so I guess opening up not such a good idea."  Then, "I guess thats what I get for opening up."

This just blew what progress I thought he was beginning to make.  Does this sound like a typical N's behavior?

Axa - your experience with N, helps remind me that he will probably never be able to change.

Please keep telling me what I need to hear.

Elaine

[Certain Hope]

At this point I don't respond and I get back this:
"You act like I am bothering you by telling you how I feel so I guess opening up not such a good idea."  Then, "I guess thats what I get for opening up."

This just blew what progress I thought he was beginning to make.  Does this sound like a typical N's behavior?

Dear Elaine,

Yes, that sounds exactly like N behavior.

Hang in there.

Carolyn

[Hopalong]

Hi Elaine,

I thought his outpouring was a marvellously self-indulgent rant about HIS feelings. Briefly, they were guilty feelings. I have had several romantic relationships with Nmen, and it was not unusual for them to put on amazing displays of self-recrimination. I would say in one way or another, each dazzled me now and then with a long flowery speech about their own "bad treatment" of me.

I would melt. I would think three thoughts:
Gosh, he's acknowledging it! He recognizes he's been unkind and unfair! That must mean he wants to change it!

The first two thoughts were accurate. The third was a killer.

This is what I believe about your N, Elaine. Sure, momentarily, he acknowledged it. He even momentarily owned it.

I believe it would be a FATAL mistake to believe that those "change back" dramatics indicate in any way that he is now going to change his character.

He's not. I don't even think he can. It would require being fully responsible not just for a moment when he wants you to take him back (his supply source is retreating, it's the classic response) ... but over the years of a shared life. He won't.

On some deep level that you want to have a HEALTHY life, a HAPPY life, not just romantic yearning and cravings for sexual fusion and enmeshment, I believe you know it too.

gently,
Hops

[Elaine1966]

Certain Hope and Hops,

I just cry and cry when I read your words.  I know you are right, I JUST HATE THAT YOUR RIGHT! 

I DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS (even though I need too).

I WANT HIM TO CHANGE SO BADLY, I WANT TO BE HAPPY WITH HIM AND HIM ONLY!

I AM SOOOOO ANGRY............................................

WHY DID HE GET PUT IN MY LIFE????????????????????????? THIS MISERY IS PURE H-E-DOULBE HOCKEY STICKS!

I NEED TO GO BEAT UP MY PILLOW NOW!

Elaine 

[Certain Hope]

((((((((((((Elaine)))))))))))))  About 5 years ago, I felt just like that.

It'll be okay, really... better than okay.
You'll learn to accept yourself, and then to like yourself, and then you'll be attracted to people who have what it takes within themselves to genuinely cherish you and not try to get you to jump through hoops in order to get what you need from them.

Love,
Carolyn

[lighter]

Sorry it hurts so much, Elaine.

Better a little pain now than huge legal bills and children being torn apart, along with this and more pain, KWIM?

I wanted to comment that.....

It's much more exciting when a bad boy comes around and behaves nicely.....

than when a nice man comes around and is nice, isn't it?

When you find yourself hoping and wishing and longing for a man to change and behave a certain way....

HUGE RED FLAG!  And it's flying over your head, not his: /


One more thought....

When a man shows you who he is.... believe him.

Ok..... just oooooooone more, lol.

We are where we want to be.

You have the power to take yourself out of this situation, learn from it, mourne it then go on the have something better.

You do not need to understand this fully in order to decide it's not for you. 
\
You do not need him to understand, and I promise you...... he never will.

No matter how many times he makes puppy dog eyes and tells you he wants you to explain it to him so he can understand and change.

It is what is.

Accept it.

Adapt.

Act.