Revenge, justice, shame

[axa]

Thoughts I have been having and would welcome discussion on are the followoing.

Revenge, Justice and shame.  I know I would never act on feelings of revenge but I still have them and wondered if they were "wrong" but I got to thinking is a desire for revenge just a normal human feeling?  I see how most people see revenge as a dirty word and if I ever in my life have mentioned a desire for revenge I have been left feeling shamed.  As if it was the most terrible thought to have, almost "inhuman".  If I speak to someone of my desire for revenge I am usually met with the response "That is a terrible thing to think" like there is something wrong with me.  I wonder does it make the other feel "good" in opposition to my "bad" (revenge thought).  Is it normal to want to hurt those who have hurt us.  I do acknowledge the difference between doing and thinking.  And then I wondered what stopped me taking revenge and I think it is the fear of being caught not the moral question.  So I do not like feeling shamed for being honest and I do not like feeling shamed for expressing a part of me that exists and is difficult to face.  Is this part buried so deeply in all of us that we are shamed to acknowledge its existence. 

This brought me on to thinking about justice.  When we are hurt by someone we go to the law and the perpetrator is brought to court and punished.  Is this revenge only someone else is doing the punishing for us so it seems less connected with us.  When this happens we are supported and heard.  Is it a clean form of revenge?

Just some thoughts that have been going around in my head.  By the way I would not act on any revenge thoughts but do think I would have felt better if I had.

Axa

[dandylife]

Axa,
I think it's totally normal to want revenge (vengeance) on those who've done us wrong.

I think about it only rarely, as I see it as a waste of energy. It comes out in my sleep, though. I have some very interesting, sometimes violent dreams.

I never thought of "justice" as a form of validation, but it is, isn't it?

Dandylife

[Ami]

Dear Axa,
 I think that the next step for me ,in healing, is related to your thread. We have to accept the evil part of our nature ,if we are to be whole(IMO).
 By accepting it, we are much less likely to act on it.If we are blind to it, we would be MORE  likely to act on it.
 In any Social Psychology experiment ,most of the people did the "immoral" thing.
 In Nazi Germany, very few people saved people.  Kitty Genovese was murdered while a crowd watched.
 I think the larger issue is what enables the "few" people to stand above the crowd.How do they manage their own evil and chose "good"?
  That to me is the root question, NOT that we think "evil" things. I have been wrestling with these issues since I got on the board. I am just ,now, finding the solutions,for myself. Compost what does not fit, Axa.                                               Ami

[Hopalong]

Axa,
I think revenge fantasies are very normal when you're used.

I had them.

In one case, I "blew the cover" of an exN by getting together with his exlovers. He was furious but also hurt, since I removed his mask by comparing stories with them. He knew it, they knew it, we women found healing in the solidarity and he lost supply big-time.

In hindsight I wish I'd been strong enough to detach and walk away without doing that. But it also did bring major closure for me and two other women. So I'm ambivalent.

When I saw him once more, though, I could see it had hurt him. And that part was hard.

He was a human being. And I maligned him...with malice. I guess that's what revenge is about.

The thing I hate about relationships with Ns is it's very hard not to be tainted by them.

I know after 10 years with my mother, I'm not as nice a person as I used to be.

Hops

[debkor]

Hi Axa,

Oh yes I had thoughts of revenge.  I think that is normal to think about.   My thoughts though were more on exposing him to everyone and then some. 

I thought more about the damage of ruining his image even as far as posters at his favorite hang outs.  Bill Boards would have been good too.   You know just being there to rain on his parade at every waking breath until he lived like the little troll he was in some dark cave where no human would ever want to have contact with him ever again.
But he even ruined that for me because he exposed and ruined his image HIMSELF!  Gawd!

So ya!  I did.

Ok, ok,  I beat up his shirt one night and threw out one of his favorite tapes. 

I even left for a night to go to my mothers and left glasses and cigs all around like I had a party when he stayed out for a night.  You know make him think I was all that not missing him and had a few parties of my own. Make him think who I was with and what I was doing.  I arrived home the next day to a mess to clean and he still wasn't home.  So much for revenge!  Geesh!  I revenged myself. (lol)

Love
Deb

[Ami]

I felt revenege urges, recently,but, I "forced" myself to do a loving gesture  and I felt better.             Ami

"What you sow you reap" is a spiritual principle.
 I have to be careful NOT to take revenge in my own hands and just let the principle work,but it  is an act of the will ,not the emotions.The emotions "want" to right the "wrong"

[gratitude28]

Axa,
Yes!!!!!! I WANT revenge. I really do. But it is hard to get revenge for an entire lifetime of under-the-radar sabotage and cruelty. How can you???? I won't be able to...

You want to know what is sad... I wanted bad things to happen to my mother when I was little - not even knowing that there was a problem. I would pray that they would divorce or she would go away or something would happen to her so that I could just live with my dad. How many little kids do you think wish for that????? And how did it take thirty some years to figure out there was something wrong with my mother????

Axa, your thoughts are fine. I wouldn't suggest actually doing any of the things you have dreamed up But enjoy your fantasies fully.

Love, Beth