getting out of ourselves - have you ever impacted someone else?

[dandylife]

Doing a little self-therapy - trying to discover past times when I stood up to abusive behavior. I was thinking about how what we do can impact others - positively and/or negatively.

Have you ever impacted someone in a very certain way - due to their abuse of you?

What happened - specifically?

I'll go first.

A boy really liked me. We were in 4th grade together. His name was Patrick. Every day at recess he would follow me around, try to kiss me, tell everyone around that I was his girlfriend. One day, he scratched our names into some playground equpment. Patrick + ____ = love.

I went up to him, and I told him, "if you do that one more time, I'm going to punch your lights out."

Well, next day, he did it. Only with more drama. So.....I punched him. Down he went on the playground.


That evening, there was a loud bang! bang! bang! on our front door. My brother went to the door and opened it. There was a 12 year old, very angry boy....and Patrick standing behind him.

He said, "My little brother just had heart surgery. And your sister BEAT HIM UP on the playground today! What are you gonna do about it?"

My brother turned to me, a questioning look in his eye. "Yep, I did. I warned him. If he kept bothering me about being my boyfriend, I'd punch him. He kept bothering me, so I punched him."

My brother looked at him and said, "Yep, she beat him up. If you don't get out of here, I'm going to BEAT YOU UP!"

Boy did that validation feel good from my bro.

But, after a while, I felt bad about punching a boy who'd had open heart surgery. I honestly didn't know. Would I have behaved differently? Yes, I think I would have found a less dramatic way(!)

Dandylife

[Gabben]

Dandylife,


Besee said:

"also when I read it, I questioned open heart surgery in 4th grade, and then thought well a 12 year old wouldn't be sophisticated enough to make that up to play mind games and guilt trip a little girl, lying about something like that to make someone else feel bad is something I've seen in older folk"

As I read your story I too wondered could the boy have been lying to you to get you to feel guilty?

It really sucks to be liked by a guy when you have zero attraction...it is almost creepy in a way.

Since I do a great deal of work with recovering alcoholics I would hang out at a recovery facility where I got to know a man who was a counselor and live in resident, he had a really good program, so to speak, (AA Talk). We became friends and I started giving him a ride to church every Sunday night. He is  over 15 years older than me, in his late fifties. I only saw him as a friend, nothing more and friendships in AA, men with women, are quite common.

Last week I heard from one of this man's friends that he was in love with me and was telling everyone in our social network that I am his "lady friend." His friend told me that he had pretty much already had us planning a wedding and figured I too felt the same.

I was pissed. It angered me that this man, who I was just giving a ride to church once a week, did not even directly ask me how I felt or if I was attracted. I thought that I made it perfectly obvious that I was not interested. Also, if I knew that this man was romantically interested in me I would have cut off contact right a way to not lead him on.

It was just a ride to church for heavens's sake!!!...no pun intended

One of the things that annoys me most is that it was hard for me to attend the Mass that I was giving him a ride to. But because he did not have a car I was making a sacrifice. At one point I asked him if he could attend another Mass time or get a ride on his own, he played a game trying to convince me that that Mass was the only way he would fulfill his Mass obligation, subtly playing on my guilt ....yuck!

So I cut off all contact with him and stopped giving him a ride to church. Right about now I would punch him too if I were in the 4th grade!

Gab

[dandylife]

Izzy,
I don't know what my ultimate impact was - but Patrick remained in school, alive and well until I moved away 2 years later. He never bothered me again.

Of course you'd feel badly that your former boss knew more about your daughter. Did he have a malicious streak, this man? I'm glad you were able to let him know how you felt.

Besee and Gabben,
Your thoughts provoked a vivid memory for me that's always been a part of this memory - but really visualized it for me. As the older brother said that Patrick had had heart surgery, Patrick lifted his t-shirt and showed us his massive scars, which really did cover his chest. It was amazing. And I felt very bad about it for a long time. However, it didn't excuse his behavior - the relentlessness of it. So I'm very glad my brother stood up for me, I don't know what I'd have done otherwise, I probably would have cried!

Gabben,
Your story reminds me of that book, The Gift of Fear - and reading about women's experiences with creepy men. You just don't know when you're going to encounter that type of behavior. I think if you express any kind of uncertainty at that point, they will feed off it, and it will become worse. I'm glad you cut off the rides, etc. Perfect.

Dandylife
 

[dandylife]

Another thing I remember doing from the age of about 14-16, I refused to call my Ndad "dad". I called him by his name -Dale.

This was my rebellion - and, now that I think of it, was really a pretty dangerous thing to do. with an N.

He probably retaliated in a lot of different passive agressive ways that maybe I'm not even aware of.

It must have made him feel very badly - or whatever? I wasn't really concerned with his feelings. But I made it clear he didn't behave like a dad, so I wouldn't call him that.

Dandylife

PS My point in all this, I guess, is how did I lose this strong, rebellious, certain self?

[Gabben]

PS My point in all this, I guess, is how did I lose this strong, rebellious, certain self?

Hi Dandylife,

Looking back I can see that my rebellious nature of my teens served to protect me from my mom's N abuse which was already so damaging.

Perhaps as adults, through out our life, we swing the pendulum a bit? Perhaps as that strong young girl you were was acting out of self-protective instincts but as an adult we see that the need for rebellious can create more obstacles for us rather than open doors.

Finding my strong "certain self" voice has been a life long challenge for me, having grown up with a toxic codependent mother who squished and denied my "certain self."

Just the fact that I will so quickly turn away or refuse to tolerate dishonest behavior, as in the case of the manipulative guy I wrote about, that is that rebellious teen in me.

But, the adult in me was diplomatic and considerate to this guy who had a crush on me. I did not tell him that I knew he was using our friendship to feed his ego by spreading rumors about him and me. Instead I told him that I was unable to continue giving him a ride because I needed to attend an earlier Mass due to daylight savings as well as he does not know yet that I will no longer be visiting the recovery home were he works and lives. I figure I will just keep my distance and let time do it's gentle way of revealing the truth to him.

It is a balance for me of being firm with others, honoring myself, being gentle and compassionate while respecting others. It takes practice but once the muscles are strong it becomes so second nature.

Gabben

[dandylife]

Gabben,

That's a fascinating insight. We become more diplomatic and consider others more as we mature. I like that.

I guess, too, we are more able as we mature to do the "ecology check" - how does my behavior affect others? Hey - full circle - that goes right back to my subject matter!

Thanks!

Dandylife

[debkor]

When I think back to school I remember bullies.  Some of them lived on my block.  One was especially mean.  You know the cool kid.

I didn't like her because I just didn't like her.  One time she picked on me and punched me right in the nose.  I was shocked.  I was not afraid of her I was just taught to never put my hands on others.  I think I was more afraid of hurting her back.  Didn't feel right to me. 

My nose was bleeding all over.  I remember my dad stopping the bleeding and feeling really sorry for me and my mom just about having it with this kid.

Now remember when this happened everyone was out on the block.  Kids and adults including the kids mom.   So I went home very very embarrassed and I wondered why no one stopped it or yelled at her.

My mom dragged me back down the block and confronted the kids mom about why she let it go on.  Not the child because kids fight. She was more outraged with the adults behavior.

The mom told my mom that what does she expect her to do when her child is a chicken (me).  My mom was very frustrated at this point and we started to walk away when the kid came up from behind me and slapped me even with my mom there.  I remember I looked at my mom and my mother said, defend yourself, bloody her nose like she did yours.  And I did. 
That was the end of that and bullying.


We became very good friends after that and so did our moms.

I later found out that her mom was beaten by her dad and she saw it all.  Her mom separated her father for a few years.  He got help they worked out the marriage and all was good. 

So I think we all impacted each others lives.



Love
Deb

[dandylife]

Debkor,
wow. I can see how you must have had a lot of mixed feelings throughout that whole experience! Your mom marching you down to see the other mom (fear, humiliation, protection, anxiety), and then getting hit again! (injustice, righteous indignation, anger!)

And then your mom telling you to hit her back! Sometimes, physicality is what it takes to stop it. I've learned this is true, with incidents involving my son and neighborhood boys.

This must be a memory/trigger for you, but maybe even a good one - in that you were able to take care of yourself - and it seemed your mom was on your side.

Thank you for sharing that story. Interesting, too how the abuse came out in the open after the incident.

Dandylife

[finding peace]

Hey Deb and Dandylife – it is very good to see both of you here again!  Missed you!

Deb – your story “hit” me on so many levels….

The bullying (had that),

The protection from your mom (how beautiful that she protected you),

The unbelievable behaviour on the part of the bully’s mom (seen that),

The permission to defend yourself (never had that, and again - good for your mom!),

How sad it was that this was learned behavior on that child’s part that was taken out on you, and that the only thing that they understood was violence (probably passed on from many past generations....)

And the beautiful part – despite everything, you ended up friends.

Very poignant on so many levels.

Dandylife, this is a great topic.  I believe that every action we take impacts someone somewhere (the old butterfly in Beijing theory).  It may affect someone significantly and get passed on to many others or may be a minor blip that goes no further than the people involved.

I am learning that, for me, I want the outcome of my actions to be as positive as possible for others (not always successful – and have screwed up sometimes pretty badly – but I am still working to get there).

(((((Good to read you both!!!)))))

Peace

[dandylife]

Hi finding peace - nice to read you, as well!

you wrote: "I am learning that, for me, I want the outcome of my actions to be as positive as possible for others".

I guess that is the key to the difference between us and N's - empathy?

Their key missing ingredient?

Reminds me of when I first met my Npartner. I was 17, he was 22. He was my boss (pursued me anyway - no boundaries! they should really teach boundaries in junior/senior high)

Anyway, he invited me to his apartment. The first thing he did was get out his photo album. And he told me his life (sob) story. Which really is a sob story - very very sad. So of course I had all this emotion welled up in me -tons of empathy/sympathy. After that it was like - I can't be mean to this person - can't leave - he can't take any more! etc. Who knows, maybe he was trying to accomplish that?

Strange to think of this now...it was so long ago.

Dandylife

[dandylife]

Besee,

Thank you so much for your comment and apology - although I didn't mean for my comment to sound negative at all - it just did provoke that memory - which is good - I want the total picture!

So, thank you!

Dandylife