Perfectionism---A Key to Depression(I think)

[Ami]

I realized from talking to my friend how much I put perfectionism on myself.  Then  I fail, continually and I hate myself . I SEE the whole cycle.
 I see that it ranges from "dumb" things like buying things for the kitchen(dishwashing detergent) to medium things like dog training to big things like I am a failure,as a whole being, b/c......
 Now, I can look around and everyplace I look I "see" that I am a failure. My house is never organized. I am not "social" like I "should" be. Now, of course, I have my son's death ,which is a category, all it's own .
 I felt like this long before his death. His death just added to it,like a nuclear bomb ,on top of a conventional bomb.
 So, I see that everything is a "sign" of my failure and THAT is why I feel badly, to a large extent.
 I was thinking that when I was a kid, I was always failing, too,b/c I was not perfect. That allowed my M access to decimate me. I guess I deserved what was coming to me,in her mind. There was good and bad, no in between. I was "bad", of course, b/c "good" was an impossible standard.
 Now, I SEE the pattern, so it has to be a step forward,even though it is VERY painful to see.
 I am my own jailer ,now, which is a freedom and a responsibility.
 It feels very heavy to see,but maybe will feel better after I sit with it for a while. Hopefully, s/one can relate and that always helps, too.                                                                                                  Thanks  for listening,    Ami

[Ami]

What is a hxxx, Besee? Whatever it is, it must be  bad(lol). I think when we are raised by abusive parents we have perfectionistic standards, as a result. It must just be how it is.                      Love to you,Besee,      Ami

[Ami]

I think that perfectionism is deadly b/c  the result is   and shame.   Perfectionism is a life   "stance".
 Blinders came off and I saw  how I judge myself for everything. THAT is why I feel such shame. *I* am the only one who can release me .
 After Scott died, my M came to my house. She was wonderful . .Even if she morphed in to a great mother, it is too late b/c the damage has been done ,inside me.
 I think that once I see how silly it is to keep beating myself over a standard which can never be reached, I will be able to get more realistic standards and stop beating myself.
  I never  saw it, the way I did ,today. It is  insidious, getting in to every pore of your body and screaming at you that you are worthless because.....(any reason)
  There will always be a reason why  you are worthless IF  you have perfectionism. Trying to outrun it by doing  outside activities or having outside achievements  won't work.It takes an internal revolution(IMO)                                                  Ami

[Ami]

I am pathological.                      Ami

[James]

Ami........i'm sorry you're feeling this way right now. Children of N parents often resort to perfectionism, or feel intimidated by the perfectionism of others. I did. We do this IMO to try and please so that we will be loved and not be rejected and feel hurt.  We don't realize back then that they can't love us. It's them not us.  You are loveable you show it here so much. The shame is not yours it's theirs for forcing a small child into such a state of mind and fear..............Love james     PS you should see my place now! i'm thinking i'm starting to like myself.

[Kimberli63]

Hi Ami and everyone who responded. I identify with this concept. For years, I used to drive myself into a frenzy trying to be perfect. Then when the last Narc husband died, after the divorcing me a couple of months prior to that, I turned round and said to myself "I better get cracking tidying this place up". And then I thought "why, what does it matter, it is mine and mine alone, and the me in me said ''you've waited a long time to be the slob you are so go for it." Now two and a half years later, I still haven't wiped down the kitchen cupboards, or done any of those trivial chores and I feel happier living in the house where I seldom pull out the vacuum cleaner. I don't fret if the floor is dirty. There are spiders everywhere, and do you know what "I don't care". That voice in my head that used to say people won't like you, has gone. I no longer think I am judged on how perfect everything is. A lot of the anxiety I used to feel has gone.
I don't feel guilt. I only feel relief, and that is a good feeling. It is the same with my car. I used to examine it everyday and polish out any scratches, I got in the car park. I fretted whilst I was at work wondering what was happening to my car. Now I say it's my car and anyone who wishes to judge me the scratches it has on it, isn't worth knowing. There was a stage with my first Narc husband, where I had to explain every mark on the car, where the petrol had gone etc.What a pain that was! Yes, Ami, I think by trying to be perfect, we set ourselves up for disappointment and that spirals out of control, because the more we try and be perfect, the less we are able to be (perfect), and the less we are able to be perfect, the more anxious we get. The more anxious we get, the more we berate ourselves. It is a vicious circle. Once you break the cycle, sanity prevails and you realise how much time people have wasted being perfect when they should have been loving and caring.

Kim in Oz

[Ami]

Thank you Besee, Izzy, James and Kim,
 I have learned so much from this thread. I think that perfectionism does not have freesom of choice.. It is a drive to out run shame. I can see that a person could do any activity ,like clean the house, based on perfectionism OR choice. If it were based on choice,it would feel good. If based on perfectionism, it would feel "driven'. You would feel as if your "worth" depended on it.Do you agree?                                  Ami

[Overcomer]

There is a difference between trying to do things perfectly and then congratulating yourself or someone else for a good attempt or expecting perfection and never obtaining it (because it is NOT obtainable) and feeling like a failure.  With my mom it was not hoping for perfection it was striving to live up to what SHE wanted the outcome to be and if you did not do as she wanted then you were a failure.  She did not want me to be an A STUDENT She wanted me to be the perfect Christian.  Not possibl

[Ami]

Yes, Kelly.
My M wanted me to be perfect in ways that reflected well on her, too.
However,it was also, every little thing in my life, down to the details of buying dishwashe detergent soap. She wanted to try to take away any sense of my own core, b/c she was afraid that I WAS perceptive .
 She is still afraid of that,I think.                                          Ami

[Overcomer]

Really my mom could care less about me and the trivial things-and my whole life is trivial to her.  Only when I am in her sphere is it important to be what she wants me to be.  However she is intrusive-she used to call and want me to report the day to her  And she would call and talk work every day and all day.  I have put an end to it all thank God!

[Ami]

Dear Kelly
 I think I have come out of denial about my M, to a larger degree. I "see" more clearly that she simply wants to destroy me. She will never change b/c she cannot retain insight--a freaking big bleh!                      Ami

[wiltay]

Ami, I really think you have something here with your emphasis on perfectionism.  Basically the N parent demands that the child be a selfless clone of themselves.  They use love as the carrot and stick to mold the child's behavior so that it reflects the image(of themselves) they want to see. But no child can be the desired reflection consistently and this engenders continual rejection by the parent.  Hence the only way in the child's mind to be loved and lovable is to be perfect. Since the child is NOT perfect, he naturally concludes he is basically flawed and unworthy of love. The child who becomes an adult N solves the dilemma by inventing a self that IS perfect and without flaw and therefore lovable.

    As adults, I believe voiceless people continue the same doomed, hopeless quest for perfection and of  course continue to fail and 'prove' their unworthiness to themselves over and over again.  How many times have we heard not to connect self-worth with performance?? But not so easy to do for Vs.  Every time you fall short in any way your self esteem automatically goes into the toilet.  You have to break that perfection=love connection.

 

Yes, Kelly.
My M wanted me to be perfect in ways that reflected well on her, too.
However,it was also, every little thing in my life, down to the details of buying dishwashe detergent soap. She wanted to try to take away any sense of my own core, b/c she was afraid that I WAS perceptive .
 She is still afraid of that,I think.                                          Ami

[Ami]

Ami, I really think you have something here with your emphasis on perfectionism.  Basically the N parent demands that the child be a selfless clone of themselves.  They use love as the carrot and stick to mold the child's behavior so that it reflects the image(of themselves) they want to see. But no child can be the desired reflection consistently and this engenders continual rejection by the parent.  Hence the only way in the child's mind to be loved and lovable is to be perfect. Since the child is NOT perfect, he naturally concludes he is basically flawed and unworthy of love. The child who becomes an adult N solves the dilemma by inventing a self that IS perfect and without flaw and therefore lovable.

    As adults, I believe voiceless people continue the same doomed, hopeless quest for perfection and of  course continue to fail and 'prove' their unworthiness to themselves over and over again.  How many times have we heard not to connect self-worth with performance?? But not so easy to do for Vs.  Every time you fall short in any way your self esteem automatically goes into the toilet.  You have to break that perfection=love connection
 

Yes, Kelly.
My M wanted me to be perfect in ways that reflected well on her, too.
However,it was also, every little thing in my life, down to the details of buying dishwashe detergent soap. She wanted to try to take away any sense of my own core, b/c she was afraid that I WAS perceptive .
 She is still afraid of that,I think.                                          Ami

Dear Bill,
 I can look around ANY room ,in my house, or any part ,in myself and see  shame, shame, shame. I am flawed , I am flawed keeps repeating . I am facing that now. When  s/one comes over,I clean the house and it looks good. My house AND I are like a prop.We try to look good,but it is a hanging together with pins.
 I am  afraid that a pin will fall out, and shame will fall down around me--bleh.
I am trying to outrun shame. I hear "Who do you think you are?"in my head . I  go to great lengths to avoid it. If I am perfect enough, maybe it will stay away.
It really HAS  me either way. It has me if I am running  OR if it gets me. It is all part of the same cycle.I am the prey,just as I was with my M.
The worst part of all is fear of intimacy. Intimacy is " In To Me You See"
For s/one to "see" me is the worst fear of all. I really don't know who I am,much of the time.
I have so many distortions about myself. Since I have to be "perfect", I am always failing.Then, I am set up for shame, from myself and /or s/one else.
 I became just like my M, filled with shame and insecure--bleh. The last thing in the world I ever wanted was to be like she. She  is a clueless . I am half like her and half not.
I took on the shame ,but I am not clueless. . I am in some in between state.
Just talking about it and facing it feels positive.  Identifying a problem is the first step to letting it go..
 The answer is in  facing the lies about myself. When I can see myself as human, not "bad", I will be emotionally well, I think. The Bible says ,"There is NO temptation taken you, which is  common to man"(paraphrase). IOW, we are all alike ,as humans, in our cores. My goal is to believe this ,in my heart. I don't yet, but I hope to.
 Thanks for your post, Bill.                                    Love and Hugs,    Ami