Why when people tell us to be gentle to ourselves does it evoke shame?

[Iphi]

Hey Lise are you doing alright?  I've been thinking of you and how courageously you raised this issue.  Hoping you are well.

[Gabben]

Iphi,

Thank you for asking, that helps. I've been in a lot of emotional pain, too much to talk or write much. I'll be OK. Ironically, I'm trying to be really gentle to myself...Taking baby-steps and just doing what is in front of me.

I'll get through this. God did not bring me this far to drop me off now

Hugs and thanks again. Hope you are well too.

Lise

[Ami]

I am sorry you are hurting,Lise. I am sending good thoughts of peace and prayers your way.
 Your definition of 'you" is NOT from the saintly N.
 You are defined from above, only.
 I know these are only words and can sound like platitudes when you are in pain. I send them with love and hope they offer some small comfort.    Love    Ami

(((((((Lise)))))))

[Gabben]

Hi Ami,


Those are powerful words. Very helpful -- Thanks.

Lately, I have been reflecting on how I can let go of my attachments to how others see me and rely on just how God sees me. It is very painful...I'm working my way past the hurt to the cleansing tears that will release some of the toxins I have been holding on to around the pain of never being seen, really seen. I cannot recall a time in my life where my mom ever looked at me with a selfless sparkle of joy in her eyes for me, especially when I was a child. I know she loved me but her love was tainted with toxin.

For the last few weeks I feel as though I have been releasing toxins from my body, or poisen...I'm not sure if it is the poisen of N saints bite of envy and her recent attack or if it is just the release of old toxic memories, probably both.

It hurts to never have been loved. It hurts to feel so rejected and unwanted in so many ways right now but I am OK...I'm just offering it up and reflecting on others and their pains...I know that I am never alone and my pain will help someone else one day, I hope.

Instead of carrying my cross with dignity I tend to drag it behind me, kicking and screaming all the way.

[Ami]

Dear Lise,
 For a long time,I have tried to feel God's love for me, inside myself, I have finally made some breakthroughs. He really is close to the broken hearted, as I learned when Scott died.
 All in all, the only thing that matters is Him and if you are in His hands.
 I hate to write"platitudes",but the only words that help deep pain ,for me, are words such as these.
  I am sending you prayers,Lise.     Love   Ami

[Iphi]

Dear Lise - What an opportunity to be practicing treating yourself well, but when the pressure is on.  I send you vibes of love and support.  I understand about never having been loved and how much it hurts.  I didn't have anyone in my family, and still dont, with whom I have a real love relationship, or anything even in the vicinity of such.  The past is a graveyard.  The future, however, is wide open.

I often think of something Ami has written.  Hope I paraphrase correctly, "If you call me a chair, am I a chair?"

If you reject me, am I a reject?  If you don't love me, am I unloved, unlovable? If you call me a pain, am I a pain?  If you betray me, am I a sucker?

When I think about this in this way, it seems more clear to me that it has nothing to do with me and everything to do with the other person and the way they treat people, and the patterns that they are trapped in.

Of course then 5 minutes later I am obsessing because my dad is trashing me to extended family (who I know don't love me or bother with me), and it stresses and upsets me what they think of me.  Huh!  Why can't wisdom stick??





lollie - I meant to respond to your post!  And say thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts.  I really hear you - so hard to carve out any kind of time to just be awake and aware, and not be rushing and attending.  Sometimes I will wake up around 3 a.m., and in the past when this used to happen I often used to fret and worry at that time.  But now I kind of appreciate just lying there staring at the ceiling, appreciating the space and time! 

But yes it is a real lesson to me, in a good way, that the H is on my side even when I'm not.  No one in all my extended family, not one person, gave me that experience or feels that way about me.  And though I've had some good friends I wouldn't presume too much on those relationships.  So this is the first time I've experienced stable healthy love.  Though he was annoyed earlier when I couldn't find the arrowroot cookies even though they were right under my nose - lol - okay that's reality.  It motivates me to make many more positive changes and work to be able to give more and better.

[Certain Hope]

I cannot recall a time in my life where my mom ever looked at me with a selfless sparkle of joy in her eyes for me, especially when I was a child. I know she loved me but her love was tainted with toxin.

((((((((Lise))))))))  if God carried a wallet, your photo woulda been in it and if He had a frig, the pictures you drew and colored woulda been on it.

In my heart, I believe that we get that joyous sparkle redeemed and multiplied to the degree that we will receive it from Him and spread it forward to others.... and on that assurance, it's possible to build a brand new life beyond our wildest dreams. I really do believe that... and I believe in you.

Love,
Carolyn

[towrite]

Gab - I know that when I tried to be good to myself when I was young, I was immediately shamed by my parents - criticized, put down, called names, etc. As I grew up, I internalized their carpings as a response to myself. As they had said, I wasn't worth it. It took me a long time to recognize this shame; the shame blocked any attempts to nurture myself. I ended up living in dangerous situations, and feeling guilty if I wanted to do something the "easy way" for a change. I always did everything the "hard way." It was the internalization of the shame from my NPs - it did not originate from myself.

I had no idea what people meant when they said, "You're being too hard on yourself". I knew no other way. After years of hearing this from friends as an adult, I finally began asking people to give me examples. It sunk in, piece by piece. I still struggle with it.

I know what you mean when "the help offered  feels like slaughter".

towrite

[Gabben]

Dear Lise - What an opportunity to be practicing treating yourself well, but when the pressure is on.

Agreed! -- I've been self-loathing for a lifetime...perhaps it is time for me to wrap my little arms around myself, squeeze (with gentleness).

I'm beginning to feel better, can you tell?

It has been as if poisen has been detoxifying out of my body, each day is getting a little easier.

I send you vibes of love and support.

Thank you, I need them...I need all the strengthening and affirming I can get being the double N victim, once bitten for 18 years by my mom and now bitten for about 18 months by a therapist/spiritual fraud guru.

I can tell that you know what I mean and how I feel, thanks.

I often think of something Ami has written.  Hope I paraphrase correctly, "If you call me a chair, am I a chair?"

This is good, it was helpful to read this this morning. Am I crazy is the one going through my mind....well in some respects, yes. But being crazy or having emotional and mental issues is a part of many people's realities, so the question is am I alone? NO...I focus on the little simple things I can do for others and myself that bring peace and joy.

Iphi -- thank you, what a wonderful voice you have.

Lise

[Gabben]

((((((((Lise))))))))  if God carried a wallet, your photo woulda been in it and if He had a frig, the pictures you drew and colored woulda been on it.

Carolyn,

Comments like this go directly into my heart and strengthen me...I needed to hear something kind this morning such as these words.

I'm sure that Gods gotta photo of you on His desk.

Lise

[Gabben]

Gab - I know that when I tried to be good to myself when I was young, I was immediately shamed by my parents - criticized, put down, called names, etc. As I grew up, I internalized their carpings as a response to myself. As they had said, I wasn't worth it. It took me a long time to recognize this shame; the shame blocked any attempts to nurture myself. I ended up living in dangerous situations, and feeling guilty if I wanted to do something the "easy way" for a change. I always did everything the "hard way." It was the internalization of the shame from my NPs - it did not originate from myself.

I had no idea what people meant when they said, "You're being too hard on yourself". I knew no other way. After years of hearing this from friends as an adult, I finally began asking people to give me examples. It sunk in, piece by piece. I still struggle with it.

I know what you mean when "the help offered feels like slaughter".

towrite

Thank you towrite for understanding.

It is as if I want to tell people "Yes, I know I am hard on myself, I know that I can't love or respect myself but please be patient with me, self can't overcome self."

Didn't you say that you wrote a book about dealing with N therapists, or something along those lines?

Lise

[Iphi]

Dear Lise - I am reading Betrayal Bonds right now, by Patrick Carnes.  Last night I read a really powerful section that had information that was very new to me, about how trauma affects people over time. 

Today I went looking around on the web to see if anyone had summarized or discussed this section and this courageous blogger who is dealing with ptsd from abuse turns out to have done a series of posts on the book and the information.

Here is a link to the blogger's post about the book, where it discusses how trauma affects us over time:
http://ptsdme.blogspot.com/2005/12/roots-of-ptsd-how-trauma-affects.html

"Patrick Carnes lists eight ways trauma affects people over time:

trauma reaction
trauma arousal
trauma blocking
trauma splitting
trauma abstinence
trauma shame
trauma repetition
trauma bonds
Most traumatized people will display some combination of these rather than just one."

When I read the section on trauma shame in the book, I thought of you (and also lots of people who have written here about their struggles with shame).    Have you read this book before?  I know people here have mentioned it, which is why it was on my 'to read' list and I finally bought it this weekend.  It's kind of blowing my mind right now.  Hope this helps.

I love Carolyn's brilliant post.  God would definitely go shopping with you and pick out cute clothes in colors that flatter you, for you to try on, and then you would go to lunch at your favorite place. 

((((Courageous Lise))))

[Gabben]

Hi Iphi,

This was very helpful, for the last hour I have been reading...I also started researching collusion and enmeshment in Codependency:

http://www.soulselfhelp.on.ca/coenmesh.html

I've ordered the book.

Just having some of the symptoms validated for me have taken some of the edge off. I could not understand why I am having such a hardtime separating out from the priest who, listened and trusted therapist, N saint's slander and betrayal.  Now I realize the he, as good and wise as he is, has is own issues and healing. He was fooled by her too which only tells me that he has his own codependent issues. He is a wonderful good soul though, just human.



Now I understand why I am attached and not separating out from him...it is the trauma of this woman's betrayal....I'm still reading and learning...but that insight brings relief. I just want my life back and my sanity. She has rented far too much space in my mind than she deserves, it is not like me to let someone reside in my thoughts so much, now I understand why. Distance and space will help the situation. I need my healing, I deserve my healing.



Thank you Iphi.

[Ami]

Just thinking of you,Lise. The N's problems reside in them,not us. I am seeing that with my M, finally. She will destroy me ,without a thought, if it means keeping her mask on.
 We don't need to own the N's issues. It is not a reflection on us, even though it IS pointed to us. It is THIER problem, as evidenced by  my recent interaction.         Love   Ami

[Gabben]

Hi Ami,

This is one of the most painful situations I have ever worked through.

I've been trying to figure out what the burning sensation is that runs constantly through my body. Now I know it is shame. N saint has never acknowledged her role or hurtful behavior towards me, she has treated me like a speck of dirt that got in her windshield of opportunity. She, like an usurping sibling, saw what I had and took it, without remorse.

The priest, is healthy, fairly. I can now see some of his issues glaring. So now, perhaps, the burning shame I feel is their shame....all of their unwanted shame of the situation has been dumped on me, perhaps??

So, I pray everyday, offering all up, praying for them. Because I have worked through so much of my anger issues I can reach for forgiveness so much more easily, it actually brings immediate relief. My expectations are low, I do not expect apologies, amends, acknowledgement or retribution, that is another relief and freedom.

I just want my health and peace. I just want to love and even accept them in all of their life's struggles, only Lord knows what they have had to suffer in their lives too. It is so good to be free from anger.

Justice is not mine. I have already filed an honest claim with the board of behavioral sciences on the N saint, stating my truth, the rest is on God's hands. The priest is good, he will find a way to heal and work out his own stuff. No need for me to bring or point anyone out.

One of the pains is being ignored by my parish. I think that they are afraid and just want it to all go away. But I don't blame them. They have many more important things to deal with and they must perceive that I am strong and capable on my own.

N saint will be found out, God help her.

Lise