for VESMB men

[gjazz]

I think my fear of very emotional men comes from two places: my NF, who was only "emotional" to manipulate and serve his own needs (leaning heavily to rage, not vulnerability or real emotion) and 2) my mother, who responded by leaning on me so heavily for support that I run like hell when I think I'm going to have to take on another burden.  It's not that I want the classic strong, silent type.  I enjoy most being around men who are simply honest.  If they're sad, they're sad, they can talk about it and work through it.  But if they are always sad, always need something, I begin to feel drained.  So I guess it's like anything: yes to emotion in men, absolutely.  Otherwise you never really feel like you know a person.  But if you end up as a crutch, you end up driven into the ground.  For what it's worth I imagine the same thing is true in reverse.

[James]

Gjazz......i can relate to what you said. I always kept my emotions under the radar but unfortunately i felt depressed much of the time from doing this. As i child it was necessary in order to not bring the wrath of my parents down on me and it also kept me from being sucked into the vortex of their needs. Not a lot just a little. I find honesty in both men and women very appealing because i know where i stand with these types (unlike FOO where i was left guessing) and know whats appropriate for me to share keeping in line with their boundaries. The people that i enjoy best are those who have a very broad range of emotions and have the confidence to understand the significance of this and are not afraid of showing them. For me, the relationship that i have with myself and with others is what makes life worth living, in essence they are the interpretation of my experience here on earth. I believe real intimacy involves letting others in and being let in with mutual respect for each other in a healthy way...........James 

[James]

Silverlining........I think under all this madness of competition across the world are masses of injured people struggling symbolically for acceptance and to be valued for who they really are. I know few if any people who were not damaged by their parents or the pressures of society. This emotional blindness appears to keep much of the world in sort of a trance that they can't escape. This is one time that i don't think the majority is right. It's downright dangerous to the world and its inhabitants. I think man in his/her true state is a loving gentle creature and the perversions of the masses and this reflection in it's intitutions keep many from knowing this. I used to compete in a lot of areas but the more i find myself, this is of little importance now. Most of it i consider a waste of time and energy. I do have to work at not being dragged back into others madness or the effects of........james

[gjazz]

James:  We may have grown up in similar families.  Certainly, in mine, keeping ALL emotions under wraps was extremely important.  happiness would be shot down.  Sadness would be attacked.  frustration would be mocked.  Fury would be turned against me or my siblings.  So for me, dealing with other people's emotions can be exhausting, having only learned to deal with my own as an adult.  And I'm always a little afraid I'll do or say the wrong thing, because I didn't grow up with that sort of honesty, it's new terrain.

[James]

Gjazz.....our families do sound similar. I bet a lot of people here may be thinking the same thing. I was always trying to avoid the next attack of some sort and this left me worrying about saying the right or wrong thing. It just comes with growing up in families like this IMO.....James

[gjazz]

Yes, exactly, that's probably why they call it voicelessness!  In my case it was weird because there was never any yelling, never any "overt" attacks, just constant, quiet put-downs and being demeaned.

[James]

Gjazz..."just constant, quiet putdowns, and being demeaned"...I consider those attacks but not as noisy as the other but equally damaging if not more so. It's hard to fight back against that quietness. When this occured in my family i sometimes felt hurt but couldn't undertand why. I might get angry and if i did my parents would usually say something to the effect that i had no reason to be that way. They shamed me for my anger and did not admit their actions and i was left confused. Your parents sound passive aggressive to me? Thats tough and you have my deepest sympathy.....James

[gjazz]

They are both passive aggressive, but (luckily) only my F is narcissistic.  And sociopathic.  They both came from very wealthy backgrounds and I think that insulation--nobody would ever question them or doubt them, even as young people, because of their social position--helped them maintain control over us as well.  In general, we were raised in an "anything, rather than a scene" environment.  My NF loathed children (still does) and laughing at us (never with us) was his entertainment.  Everything was mocked.  It was just done wittily and under the aegis of sophistication, which served to make us complicit in our own undoing, because we wanted to be witty and sophisticated, too.

[Izzy_*now*]

I am reading a book, "Flesh and Bone", Jefferson Bass and I find that the co-writers in this, Bill Bass and Jon Jefferson,  have some very interesting things to say, from a man's point of view in a 'budding 'romance. It makes the protagonist very male and very human, regarding his emotions.

I am reading very much real life into a murder novel as Bill Bass is a forensic anthropologist who has the "Body Farm" in Tennessee. There is a lot of interesting information outside of the romance, and I finally, after all these years, have learned about how the court reporter's machine works. Jefferson is a journalist.

I look at their picture together, at the back of the book, and they have very kind faces. Bass looks elderly and cuddly (70s?) and one would not think he could be a part of a romance. Jefferson appears a little younger and just reminds me of an actor I saw in a TV show my daughter liked. His TV name was REM.

I like to have my own ideas about what I discern from what I am reading and, In a way, I felt the 'grief' part was somewhat over done for the protagonist -- but I have never, in my life, felt 'grief'.

This is a Critique that I found online and I borrowed this from the Library because I watch CSI........

At the start of the entertaining second Body Farm novel from the pseudonymous Bass (the writing team of forensic anthropologist Dr. Bill Bass and journalist Jon Jefferson), Dr. Bill Brockton ties a dead man dressed in drag to a tree at the Body Farm (a facility he heads outside Knoxville, Tenn., devoted to researching postmortem decay), in an effort to replicate a recent murder. Dr. Bill's just beginning a romantic relationship with another participant in this experiment, Chattanooga medical examiner Dr. Jess Carter. The story veers wildly from fascinating forensics with a high yuck factor to sophomoric and corny romantic byplay, often in the same scene. Fans of the bestselling first book in the series, Carved in Bone, and readers with a penchant for the gross and grisly will take to Dr. Bill, a hero with a big heart who isn't afraid to tackle complicated issues while solving mildly engrossing mysteries. Dr. Bass and Jefferson are the coauthors of Death's Acre, about the actual Body Farm

This man cries. He tells about his feelings, when looking at her, when having dinner with her, his fantasies, while all the while trying to solve a murder in which both have an interest, then her death, his grief, being charged with her murder, and this man is NOT Mister "I HAVE IT ALL TOGETHER". This man is human.

I wonder what I would do if I met a :"human" man?