Let's get on with it!

[StaceyLynn]

Hey everybody...
Recently I joined the message board due to a recent discovery.  The breakdown goes as follows....

Mom's a N, dad's an enabler, younger brother is evolving into a robotic clone of my mother.  Noone in the immediate family views my mother as anything else that a "superstar".  My entire life I was stamped, "drama queen, ultra-sensitive, needy" and the like.  I've spent a good portion of my life in a therapist's office.  Age 13 to now...age 31.  That's alot of years.  Finally....I found a good therapist that brought clarity and some answers to what makes me tick, and how I evolved into the adult I am today.  Ironically, I turned out pretty normal.  Even my lifelong friends shake their heads in wonder, as to how I ended up so normal.  I guess kudos to me.  Here's the thing...

After discovering this I started to do alot of reseach on the disorder.  Like how it affects adult children of N parent's, how to move forward from this point.  It's been 4 months now...and I have total control of the situation.  I went through the grief/loss part of letting go of my dream of what I wanted from my mother, etc.  I have really found peace in accepting that she has a problem..a disease....and she or any other N is only capable of behaving the way their disease allows them to.  I put a smile on and engage my mother when she's in a mood to talk about nothing but herself.  I even throw her a bone every now and then by making her feel like she is the "perfect" person.  I do this now with a chuckle inside.  She has been easier to be around and I control how much and how often I allow her in my life.  I think she actually is aware of this without me even speaking the words.  She senses a difference in me.  I don't let her get the best of me, and I don't react to her anymore.  In doing this, I actually may be able to maintain somewhat of a relationship with her.  It is all about setting boundaries and limitations.  I think this happens when you've finally had enough of feeling sad and shitty, and you allow yourself to do what needs to be done to be happy again.

The purpose of this entry, which I'm hoping won't piss too many people off, is simple...
 I have read many of the entries and responses on this board.  I have related to many and not so much to others.  I've found that there are many intelligent people out there with much good advise to give.  I just can't figure out why it seems there are so many of you spending more time bitching about the N in you life, instead of "getting on" with your own!  There are many newcomers that truely are in the beginning stages of figuring it all out.  But there are many that have known the "deal" for a while and send vibes that they're stuck in a place they don't seem to be able to get out of.  It's just an opinion.  

I just want to remind everyone that I came to this site looking for help in healing and direction in MOVING FORWARD to a happier place.

I hope I haven't come off rude or anything along those lines.  That is not my intent.  In fact, I would love to be able to share with anyone willing to listen,  things that have worked for me in healing and moving on.  We've all been hurt/scared, whatever, by some N at some time.  Now's the time we need to be good to OURSELVES!   Good luck!

[Discounted Girl]

4 months?? wow -- that's a record I think. What do you propose to do about the lies she has told about you and the smear campaigns, which Nmothers seem to make a career of? I just have to say that Narcissism is not a disease, it is a personality disorder, a continuation of a bad habit that is totally self-serving, self-centered, based on a sense of grandiosity and inappropriate entitlement. The are selfish and feel no remorse over the agony they have created. Are they aware of it? Who knows ... before you can be aware of something you have to care enough to want to know.

[Somebody]

I would be very interested in hearing about the things that have helped you heal and move on.

Personally, I think healing is an ongoing process that can sometimes become stagnated, especially if the influences--those supposedly trying to aid in that process--are encouraging stagnation.  All and any new ideas about how to improve, continue, or enhance the process of healing are always a bonus, in my view.

I feel I have healed from so much and yet have much to heal.

Not all therapists help everyone, that's for sure.  Some even cause more damage.  I'm glad to hear that you finally found one that brought clarity for you.

I think I am definately stuck at the point you describe, in that I am having big trouble letting go of the dream of what I want from my n-family member.  I'm not sure I even want to let go of that dream.   I prefer to hold onto the hope....maybe some day?

Hopefully, this won't stagnate my healing too much.

[JiggleswithaG]

The purpose of this entry, which I'm hoping won't piss too many people off, is simple...
I have read many of the entries and responses on this board. I have related to many and not so much to others. I've found that there are many intelligent people out there with much good advise to give. I just can't figure out why it seems there are so many of you spending more time bitching about the N in you life, instead of "getting on" with your own! There are many newcomers that truely are in the beginning stages of figuring it all out. But there are many that have known the "deal" for a while and send vibes that they're stuck in a place they don't seem to be able to get out of. It's just an opinion.

I hope I haven't come off rude or anything along those lines. That is not my intent.

I just want to remind everyone that I came to this site looking for help in healing and direction in MOVING FORWARD to a happier place.

I know you said your intent was not rude—I appreciate that.   It was your opinion—here’s mine.

Though you may mean well, I found your entry presumptuous.You may have come to the site looking for a happier place, but this site is what it is.You can stay or move on to a site that you feel is happier or suits you better.I'm saying that just factually and not in an angry way.

People heal at different rates and it can take many, many years of healing for some. Healing does not go like-- you are healed or not- period. It goes in phases. Sometimes you feel strong and good and don’t need to vent, other times you do.

Did you ever think that people are not talking about this in their lives or always thinking about it, have healed to a certain degree, and then just sometimes need to come to a place like this to vent a little?  To heal a little more?   That would be a good use for the board.  

Everyone, in fact most, cannot wrap up a lifetime of abuse from an N-parent (especially if they still need to deal with them regularly) in a neat little package and move on so easily.

Don't get me wrong--your message of moving forward is a great one in general, but I disagree with the way you have presented it. I hope it does not make people who need an “ear” and to do a little raw venting, feel self-conscious in doing so.

Yes, some people become stuck and it is really essential that they move on.   But there could be many others that just need to vent and share what their pain was and what  their N experience was, as the long path of their healing. You might assume someone is “stuck” and they are not at all.  This intermittent venting is an important part of healing and moving forward for many.  It can be a good & healthy thing.  

It isn't possible to paint all venters with such a broad brush, and be accurate. Can’t assume people are stuck because they are doing a fair amount of venting.As I said, this by itself is a healing and moving forward tool for some.

Who wouldn't have things to vent in having grown up with an abusive N parent, the one person who has the most influence on a child's mental and emotional well being.

For those truly stuck at a certain place, I agree with you 100% that it is important for them to try to find ways to move forward on the healing path, but to me it is all in the way things are presented.  It can’t be said like the reformed smoker of 20 years now suddenly trying to convert all smoking friends to quit, with that annoying air of overconfidence, and spurning them when they can’t do it right away.

Patience is required, and for those that are truly stuck/lost and know it, the best thing you or anyone can do is let everyone know what has helped you move on, as you say.

I’m all for letting people be at their own pace, not assuming someone is stuck in the healing process because of what they say (again, venting could be  their greatest & most healthy healing tool) but offering all the support and non judgmental advice for moving on.

People will see it, and it will reach some.  

There are plenty here who don't seem to be constantly "stuck" as you say, so you can always relate to those here that you feel a connection with, and respectfully let others be where they are, while sending helpful information that you have regarding moving on.  

You can't have the whole board change though, because you have come along and are looking for a "happier" place.

Also, I think you will help more people if you share what you have learned in a supportive way only, rather than just blatantly telling them  what they shouldn't be doing in our opinion, without any helpful info.

[Somebody]

Here I go again trying to see both peoples points and trying to understand.

On the one hand, I understand the idea that moving ahead, finding a happy place, getting past the past etc is what we are all probably trying to achieve in our own healing, and that the stuff that helps one person may very well help another, or it may not.  Wanting to share what we've learned is such a kind, loving way of trying to help someone else and I very much appreciate that effort, when I recognize it.

On the other hand, words are sometimes confusing, easy to misinterpret, too blunt for the liking of some, too general for others, too polite or not polite enough (in that--we interpret the politeness of them according to our own definition of what being polite really is and that those definitions can vary).  It is so easy to offend with words and yet, words can be so very comforting, much depending on our interpretation.  So the meanings people are trying to express with words and the meanings taken by those hearing or reading them, can be quite different.  It's hard to get it all right.

There are no time limits on healing and regression can happen sometimes, especially with improper interference such as a poor therapist etc.
I understand that expressing pain is vital to healing and that some things help some people heal quicker than others, and some not at all.
How often that pain needs to be expressed is truly an individual thing.  So we are incorrect to assume we have a right to nullify the validity of that excercise in any way.  At the same time, it seems also wrong for us to assume there is a nullification without asking if that is truly what is being communicated.  Each person is different and expresses themselves differently, and what they are trying to say may not necessarily be as we interpret.

Growing up in any n-type environment messes up communication, doesn't it?
No offense meant to anyone.

[bunny]

The reason the "get over it already" philosophy doesn't work is because of internal object relations. We all can't have a simultaneous epiphany about how to deal with severely damaged parents. It's tempting to wish for everyone to 'get it' (I have) but it's not realistic. If you are feeling impatient and annoyed maybe you'd be interested in some info about object relations. A book that explains everything in a user-friendly way is The Illusion of Love by David Celani. A very powerful book that I recommend to anyone interested in the psychology of abusive relationships.

bunny

[DenmarkGuy]

I'm a relative newcomer to this forum, but I see this kind of discussion crop up in an awful lot of "support" and "self-growth" type communities, be they in Cyberspace or in Fleshspace.

Wheras I make no claims to be a "guru in a diaper," there are a few things I've noticed, over the years. Top of that list is that everyone's coping mechanism is different, and everybody has been "damaged" in their own unique way. The perception of "stuckness" (or otherwise) is a relative one-- there is no "absolute right" or "absolute wrong." And in saying that, I am NOT implying that it isn't a "legitimate" feeling to sometimes feel frustrated with someone who seems "stuck," when you have walked down a similar path and found a way to get UN-stuck. Ultimately, the underlying feelings are unrelated to abuse or victimology... and seem traceable back to the fact that we seem "hard wired" to feel a slight "jarring" when we encounter someone/something whose perception of "reality" is different from our own.

Sometimes part of the recovery process simply includes a period of having a giant pity party for yourself-- and I honestly can't say that I see any "danger" in that, unless you take on the permanent mantra of being "the helpless victim." So maybe people blow some steam off, bitching about the N(s) in their life. The trouble (as I see it) is with getting locked into the victim role so that you've relinquished responsiblility to an "outside entity," be that "mircaculous thinking" OR a therapist. At that point, it's maybe not so healthy. As I said, I'm new here-- so I have little evidence (one way, or the other) that anyone here is "lost," in such a way.

I know that I have deliberately chosen to "slow" my own path. In a sense, this choice was born out of my earlier experiences with CBT (especially brief CBT) as a way of psychological treatment for problems. Indeed, maybe I can learn that when I "get a headache" (metaphorically speaking), I should take two advil. Fine. But there comes a point at which you build up an immunity, and you start asking yourself "Why do I keep getting headaches?" Some people, indeed, can "jump" directly into the future and just "move on" with their lives, with just a cursory glance backwards. And honestly? I salute them and congratulate them. Alas, they are not me. I have tried that path, only to discover that I am "back at the doctor" asking about my "headache." My "headache" is the "repetition compulsion," with which I battle. And so, I found myself having to slow way down and take a while to understand the underlying dynamic that causes me to make such toxic choices. And in gaining that understanding, there is certainly also a degree of "stuckness." Is it overanalysis? Entirely possible. But this is MY phreakin' journey, and the reason I am still dealing with my "headache" is that I followed OTHER people's guidance, and in doing so discovered that the path ahead was pitted with potholes built in the past.... along with NEW potholes I was building, even as I was moving along.

I am not here because I am "stuck." I am here because I am tired of dealing with "pothole avoidance." I want to learn to stop making potholes, in the first place, so I can have a smooth road. Maybe that's naive, or excessively idealistic.... whatever you choose to call it, it's where I am, at this exact moment. And that's OK. Just like the place where everyone else is, is also OK.

Of course, that's just my $0.02 worth.....

--Peter

[phoenix]

bye

[Nic]

Hi StaceyLynn,
I understand what you're saying. As I was reading your post I was very happy for you because it seemed to me that Nism was the missing link in what appears to be your lifelong search for some peace and quiet from your family environment.

I certainly can relate to your stating how others find it amazing you turned out "normal"...i've noticed that people say that as an indirect admission that our nparents were wacko, somewhat excusing themselves for not rescuing us when probably they should have.

I also felt your impatience at other people not moving on.  Others above have voiced their thoughts on this.  I would like to add that this impatience resembles residual control issues within your own experience which would lend support to the idea that we are never completely healed from an experience with abusive Narcissistic parenting. Not that it is a lifetime of struggling but it is a lifetime of dealing with hurts of greater and lesser magnitude which surface and resurface at the most inopportune times.

Like you, I have discovered how my N mother works.  With much relief to myself, my enabler father has admitted to me in few words and much body language that She is indeed a very troubled lady.

 I have learned to lower my expectations regarding my parents and I have decoded their ,until now, impenetrable way of relating to each other , to their children, indeed to the world.  This, I must say, has come after 41 years.  The fact that it has come to you earlier in life is for me a great joy, because you have spared yourself additional years of suffering.  Bravo for that!

I am certain everyone would like to feel the same elation and satisfaction you do.  I second the suggestion that you share your strategies with us here and look forward to comparing them with mine and applying them to my own situation.

Welcome among us.
Kind regards,
Nic

[Moonflower]

........

[Anonymous]

Stacylynn,

Still there?  I would like to take you up on your offer to share what you have learned that has helped you to move on from your pain. You mentioned you'd be glad to share with those willing to listen. I think there are many open ears here.

Hope to hear from you.

[Discounted Girl]

Phoenix,
That is a great analogy "the rickety construction ... poorly manufactured with ill fitting pieces." Redecorating is one thing, but you have to have a solid foundation. I like antique furniture and I have learned that if it was not quality when it was new, it is still not quality -- but a fine piece then is still a fine piece. For me at least, by the time I discovered my entire structure needed to be razed, I don't have enough time left, so I am trying to do some healthy remodeling and tear down those old energy sucking wings, extensions, mausoleums and tombs.

Moonflower,
The more I read your posts, the more I feel like you are writing what I feel.

Pardon me for quoting, but it deserves another read:
"Will I ever truly be healed? No…I don’t think so. Although I do not see or speak to her, Nmom’s spectre is still there. She lies in the shadows waiting to pounce ... I will never get over the negative influences, cruelty and manipulations of my Nmom. I will never be healed. I will never fondly look back upon my childhood. Although I have 3 siblings, I will never be close to them. So much has been lost, so much as been cruelly denied. I will always feel cheated of the family I should have had, and the person I should now be. "

P.S. I too have had the amnesia fantasy.
I don't even think about forgiving her. That's not my job and I would not want to be around when the reckoning comes.

[Anonymous now]

StaceyLynn ,

This board is for people who are voiceless.  Talking about the problem is part of understanding it and healing. And so is "b**ching", as long as it takes.

The N parents had us in their clutches while we were vulnerable children for years, so we can take years to b**ch, all we want to, and move on at the same time, which is what we ALL are doing. What we say here is not our lives. Some would consider it "stuck" to hang around their mom and feed her ego.

You said:

I even throw her a bone every now and then by making her feel like she is the "perfect" person.

You said:
 

I just want to remind everyone that I came to this site looking for help in healing and direction in MOVING FORWARD to a happier place.

 
Have you considered that if you were to stand up permanently to your mom and display self-respect and reality all the time things could be better/healthier for you internally even if Nmother wasn't happy?  Why should she be appeased at all? Why do we need a relationship with our destructive mothers anyway?

In doing this, I actually may be able to maintain somewhat of a relationship with her. It is all about setting boundaries and limitations. I think this happens when you've finally had enough of feeling sad and shitty, and you allow yourself to do what needs to be done to be happy again.

You mother must be very  mildly narcissistic that you can hang around her and feel happy about it.

This place is about acceptance of another's voice, whatever stage they are in or how long it takes. I seriously question that you had that bad of an experience to be irritated by those who are "stuck". What if they are stuck?  Where is your compassion for them? You only criticized them. "B***hing is not a word a person uses while being empathetic. Hmmm....

You said:

In fact, I would love to be able to share with anyone willing to listen, things that have worked for me in healing and moving on. We've all been hurt/scared, whatever, by some N at some time. Now's the time we need to be good to OURSELVES!

Just share your ideas with others and we will listen. Sounds like you have more healing to do because you seem to not have a clue how the Narcissism has rubbed off on you -   You come in here like a bull in a china shop and announce what  stuck losers some are, divide the board into two kinds of users - the okay people from the stuck people - and then say you want to support others. Hopefully you can learn how to be more empathetic from the users of this board.

Just expressing my voice, being good to myself for doing it and I say to you "Good luck!"